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 Surplus Reanimation Protocols bonuses

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Calyptra
Wych
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PostSubject: Surplus Reanimation Protocols bonuses   Fri Feb 20 2015, 00:07

Say a Necron Warrior from a Decurion Detachment (+1 RP) is in a squad joined by a Cryptek (+1 RP). Its Reanimation Protocols roll is 4+, because it can't be improved past that. Now say I shoot it in its stupid Necron head with a dark lance (-1 RP because of Instant Death). Is it rolling Reanimation Protocol on 5+ (4+ -1) or 4+ (4+ -1 +1)?

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Javorra
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PostSubject: Re: Surplus Reanimation Protocols bonuses   Fri Feb 20 2015, 00:12

I think it will need a faq to solve.
Actually the cryptek wording says it adds +1 to the dice, not to the RP, so RAW they would save on 4+, but on RP it states it can never be better than 4+, so RAI they would save 5+ on ID.
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PostSubject: Re: Surplus Reanimation Protocols bonuses   Fri Feb 20 2015, 00:33

Oh god lol. So their RP is 4+ but the Cryptek passes on a 3+?

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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: Surplus Reanimation Protocols bonuses   Fri Feb 20 2015, 10:49

My understanding is that all the bonuses and negatives are taken into account, and then anything better than 4+ counts as 4+.

So if you start at 5+, get three bonuses and one negative, this would drop to 2+ with bonuses, go up to 3+ with the negative, but then count as 4+ as you can't get better.

Or another way would be to take it as 5+, made 4+ by the Detachment, made 5+ by the Lance, then levelled out to 4+ again by the Cryptek. THe question of "why should his bonuses be katen into account and dropped by the limit before adding the negatives" comes into play.

As a final note, the exact wording does say of modifers "these are cumulative". So all modifiers would be taken into account together, it just that the roll can never be better than 4+.
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Sigmaril
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PostSubject: Re: Surplus Reanimation Protocols bonuses   Fri Feb 20 2015, 10:59

In my opinion modifiers are constantly modifying. By this I mean every single time a new modifier is added, you do the ENTIRE calculation again.

Say you have a Screamer Daemon and give him the 4++ Psychic power. That Daemon now has a Base 4++ save.
Then you use Grimoire of True Names on it, adding +2. Calculate: 4++ +2 = 2++
Then you cast Cursed Earth. Calculate: 4++ +2 +1 = 2++ (since it can't be better)

Then a Grey Knight cast Banishment. Calculate: 4++ +2 +1 -1 = 2++
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Surplus Reanimation Protocols bonuses   Fri Feb 20 2015, 11:48

I think this is actually covered by the rules within the Necron Codex. The key is in the wording of RP itself and of other rules that modify that. The basic rule is:

Reanimation Protocols wrote:
Roll a D6 each time the model suffers an unsaved Wound, subtracting 1 from the result if the hit that inflicted the Wound had the Instant Death special rule. On a 5+, discount the unsaved Wound – treat it as having been saved. Certain special rules and wargear items can provide modifiers to this dice roll; these are cumulative, but the required dice roll can never be improved to be better than 4+.

Let's add a Cryptek.

Technomancer wrote:
This model and all models with the Reanimation Protocols special rule in his unit receive a +1 bonus to Reanimation Protocols rolls.

Now we shoot a T4 Necron Warrior with a Dark Lance, inflicting an unsaved wound. We roll a D6 for RP, subtracting 1 for ID and adding 1 for Technomancer. The modifiers cancel each other out and we still need a 5+ dice roll to succeed.

Same situation but this time the Warrior is part of a Decurion Detachment.

Ever-living wrote:
Models in this Detachment with the Reanimation Protocols special rule receive a +1 bonus to Reanimation Protocols rolls.

So, again, we shoot a T4 Necron Warrior with a Dark Lance, inflicting an unsaved wound. We roll a D6 for RP, subtracting 1 for ID and adding 1 for Technomancer and another one for Ever-living. The modifiers work out to +1 and we now need a 4+ on the dice roll to succeed.

Let's say we now have another modifier worded in the same fashion as the other two

Made Up Bonus wrote:
Models with the Reanimation Protocols special rule receive a +1 bonus to Reanimation Protocols rolls.

So, again, we shoot a T4 Necron Warrior with a Dark Lance, inflicting an unsaved wound. We roll a D6 for RP, subtracting 1 for ID and adding 1 for Technomancer, another 1 for Ever-living and another 1 for our Made Up Bonus. The modifiers work out to +2 and we now need a 3+ on the dice roll to succeed. But the RP rule tells us that the required dice roll can never be better than 4+ so it's still 4+ to ignore the wound.

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Unholyllama
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PostSubject: Re: Surplus Reanimation Protocols bonuses   Fri Feb 20 2015, 16:15

I play Necrons as well and those Necron players that read the rules and acknowledge that the die roll changes not the success value itself agree with Count Adhemar here. There is no set modifiers so the +1's and -1's are all taken into account; however, RP can never get better than a 4+ roll.

In a Decurion, the only reason for normal Crypteks is to offset ID capable weapons.
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