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 Using a Dark Artisan Warlord Bunker

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Using a Dark Artisan Warlord Bunker   Thu Feb 19 2015, 22:13

I've heard quite a few people say that they use DA as a warlord-bunker.

So, I'm curious as to how you use it with this role in mind. Do you deploy it where the enemy forces are relatively thin, or do you find it durable enough to put it where they're concentrated?

Also, do you take any particular wargear for this role?
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Hellstrom
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PostSubject: Re: Using a Dark Artisan Warlord Bunker   Thu Feb 19 2015, 23:04

I just dump mine in the middle of everything and let them try and kill it Very Happy Hahahaha. Only happened twice so far Wink
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Using a Dark Artisan Warlord Bunker   Thu Feb 19 2015, 23:46

I just throw the DA at whatever needs killing. I've yet to lose Slay the Warlord when playing this formation.

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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Using a Dark Artisan Warlord Bunker   Thu Feb 19 2015, 23:49

I loose mine in challenges typically - mainly trying yo keep the MC alive from nasty weapons

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Javorra
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PostSubject: Re: Using a Dark Artisan Warlord Bunker   Thu Feb 19 2015, 23:51

I usually field DA in front of the main opponent's core (or in the middle of my deployment when goin first) and move as far as possible to the other side of the table, getting some cover if possible.
The warlord only died once against a DP with biomancy, and only because I forgot nurgle princes have ID with any weapon they carry.
@Massaen wrote:
I loose mine in challenges typically - mainly trying yo keep the MC alive from nasty weapons
Try and give the haem a vexator mask, it's kinda hilarious.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Using a Dark Artisan Warlord Bunker   Fri Feb 20 2015, 00:11

@Javorra wrote:

@Massaen wrote:
I loose mine in challenges typically - mainly trying yo keep the MC alive from nasty weapons
Try and give the haem a vexator mask, it's kinda hilarious.

I tried that last game. I accepted a challenge from a chapter master with fire sword, and promptly failed all 3 FNP rolls. Goodbye warlord. Sad
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Javorra
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PostSubject: Re: Using a Dark Artisan Warlord Bunker   Fri Feb 20 2015, 00:15

@The Shredder wrote:

I tried that last game. I accepted a challenge from a chapter master with fire sword, and promptly failed all 3 FNP rolls. Goodbye warlord. Sad
The funny part should be you first strike with your haem at I5, then with talos and cronos at I4, and possibly the other one will be dead before acting.
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PostSubject: Re: Using a Dark Artisan Warlord Bunker   Fri Feb 20 2015, 00:26

@Javorra wrote:
@The Shredder wrote:

I tried that last game. I accepted a challenge from a chapter master with fire sword, and promptly failed all 3 FNP rolls. Goodbye warlord. Sad
The funny part should be you first strike with your haem at I5, then with talos and cronos at I4, and possibly the other one will be dead before acting.

Not when fighting a challenge though

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Using a Dark Artisan Warlord Bunker   Fri Feb 20 2015, 00:35

@Javorra wrote:
@The Shredder wrote:

I tried that last game. I accepted a challenge from a chapter master with fire sword, and promptly failed all 3 FNP rolls. Goodbye warlord. Sad
The funny part should be you first strike with your haem at I5, then with talos and cronos at I4, and possibly the other one will be dead before acting.

I thought the DA made all 3 I5?

In any case, striking first didn't help. The haemonculus fluffed all 4 attacks, and the Talos' ID wound was saved. I think he took a single wound from the Cronos, leaving him on 2 (having lost one to lucky overmatched). He then proceeded to mince my haemonculus.

The talons did kill him next turn, but it came as little consolation. Especially since said talons was then gunned down from full wounds by a land raider.
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organicpesticide
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PostSubject: Re: Using a Dark Artisan Warlord Bunker   Fri Feb 20 2015, 01:11

How do you guys typically equip your Dark Artisan? Do you give the Haemonculous Panacea and Nightmare doll for extreme durability?
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Timatron
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PostSubject: Re: Using a Dark Artisan Warlord Bunker   Fri Feb 20 2015, 02:53

I like the Panacea. I also like the tactic of putting the Haemie equi-distant between the two engines to utilise Look Out Sir shenanigans.
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Caldria
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PostSubject: Re: Using a Dark Artisan Warlord Bunker   Fri Feb 20 2015, 09:40

@Timatron wrote:
I like the Panacea. I also like the tactic of putting the Haemie equi-distant between the two engines to utilise Look Out Sir shenanigans.

This ^

I've been doing that a lot myself - I've tried the nightmare dolls with him in a few games too, and having him tank wounds unless that instant death shot comes along (I know the nightmare doll Ignores the first ID wound, but then the doll breaks and I lose the 3+ FnP rolls (+1 to FnP) which I'd rather keep.

in my last 3 games with this unit, my warlord and the unit has never been killed. But in 2 games they only came on turn 4 and then proceeded to shoot a bit and then just.... survive.

In the last game I played with an autarch to help bring them in, and they came in turn 2. killed the unit that took the relic and then kinda just acted as area denial in his deployment zone.

I've yet to see this unit get into a good assault. Everyone I face just runs away from it. Most don't even shoot at it, they just ignore it completely. (although the area denial does help, as it helped me score objectives in the last game uncontested in his deployment.)

I just wanna see it mince stuff up in assault : <

But yeah, as a warlord bunker it's pretty great - I never wanted to make a simple haemy my warlord, the archon fits that role far better for me from a fluff perspecive. But a DA warlord haemy is really the best option we have at denying Slay The Warlord.
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PostSubject: Re: Using a Dark Artisan Warlord Bunker   Fri Feb 20 2015, 10:37

@organicpesticide wrote:
How do you guys typically equip your Dark Artisan? Do you give the Haemonculous Panacea and Nightmare doll for extreme durability?

Well, I'm still experimenting at the moment. As it stands, I always take:
- Spirit Probe on the Cronos
- WWP on the Haemonculus
- Scissorhands on the Haemonculus (I'd like him to do something in combat)
- Ichor Injector on the Talos (I see so many MCs, tooled-up characters and multi-wound units)

After that, I always give my Haemonculus at least one artefact (I think I've only tried the Sump and Vexator Mask so far). I'll probably try the Panacea soon, and maybe the Doll.

I've also been giving the Talos a Heat Lance, though I'm not sure if I want to continue doing so as it has yet to do anything productive with it. I've also tried giving the Haemonculus a Liquifier Gun, but it's just so expensive and really depressing when I roll AP2 and then fail to wound because the strength is so pitiful.

What do you guys use with regard to ranged weapons on the DA?
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Using a Dark Artisan Warlord Bunker   Fri Feb 20 2015, 10:42

Quote :
- Ichor Injector on the Talos (I see so many MCs, tooled-up characters and multi-wound units)

In terms of wounds caused, Chain-flails are actually better (and cheaper) than the Ichor Injector until you reach T7 on your opponents (which there aren't too many of). Of course, there's always that possibility of ID which you may consider to be worthwhile.

Quote :
What do you guys use with regard to ranged weapons on the DA?

I don't bother. I take just what they come equipped with but I generally find I either don't want to inflict any shooting casualties due to tenuous charge distance, or that I'm unable to do anything worthwhile even if I try.

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PostSubject: Re: Using a Dark Artisan Warlord Bunker   Fri Feb 20 2015, 11:04

I just keep them stock with ranged weapons - I was at first excited by a scatterless deep-striking twin-linked heat lance. But I found it made me tend to send them after tanks too much and the rest of the unit actually doesn't really want to take on vehicles much.

So now I just stick with the stock weapons, the spirit siphon may me S3 but at least its a guaranteed AP3 unlike the liquifier. And a twin-linked Splinter Cannon is still not bad as a weapon.

Most of my games all they do is shoot and area denial though - my opponents just run away from them and/or ignore them. I've only had them get into a assault once and that was because my opponent assaulted them with some veterans with a 4+ inv from forwarning, to try slow them down. The DA won the combat, but barely.

They really do belong in combat though - their shooting is just "icing on the cake" so best to just keep it standard.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Using a Dark Artisan Warlord Bunker   Fri Feb 20 2015, 11:06

@Count Adhemar wrote:
Quote :
- Ichor Injector on the Talos (I see so many MCs, tooled-up characters and multi-wound units)

In terms of wounds caused, Chain-flails are actually better (and cheaper) than the Ichor Injector until you reach T7 on your opponents (which there aren't too many of). Of course, there's always that possibility of ID which you may consider to be worthwhile.

ID is the only reason why I take the Ichor Injector.

But, I might give chain flails a go and see if I notice any loss.

@Count Adhemar wrote:

Quote :
What do you guys use with regard to ranged weapons on the DA?

I don't bother. I take just what they come equipped with but I generally find I either don't want to inflict any shooting casualties due to tenuous charge distance, or that I'm unable to do anything worthwhile even if I try.

Fair enough. I'll try dropping the Heat Lance and see if I miss it.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Using a Dark Artisan Warlord Bunker   Sun Feb 22 2015, 12:22

As a question, do you guys ever have a problem with Dark Artisan's damage output?

I ask because, whilst tough, it doesn't really do much. The Haemonculus occasionally shines, but at all other times he's just adding a few poisoned attacks that might rend. The Cronos is only WS4 and S5 - so despite being AP2 it rarely does much. It seems that only the Talos is a threat, but even that has only 4 attacks.

Is this sufficient for you guys? I mean, for a squad approaching 400pts, it seems like it isn't actually doing much. Am I wrong?
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Using a Dark Artisan Warlord Bunker   Sun Feb 22 2015, 12:23

For me, the damage output is just about enough. It's not spectacular but it gets the job done. They are there to tie up the enemy heavy hitters and, unlike most tarpits, they will actually kill the unit rather than just delay it.

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Using a Dark Artisan Warlord Bunker   Sun Feb 22 2015, 12:31

@Count Adhemar wrote:
For me, the damage output is just about enough. It's not spectacular but it gets the job done. They are there to tie up the enemy heavy hitters and, unlike most tarpits, they will actually kill the unit rather than just delay it.

Hmm, maybe I'm just thinking about it the wrong way then.
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PostSubject: Re: Using a Dark Artisan Warlord Bunker   Sun Feb 22 2015, 12:53

Yeah, in my experience with DA so far, I've found that they best fill the roles of Warlord bunker and killy tarpit. They're what you throw against your opponent's elite CC units like Wraiths, MCs, and TWC. DA will tie them up and whittle them down thanks to their 3+/4++ (re-rolling 1's!) and the Haemie's 3++ (with Doll) /IWND (on a 4+ with the Panacea). They are not going to straight murder most of the things you should be throwing them at in one turn. If you want to do that, run the Corpsethief. Or better yet, run both of them (ha ha, assuming you're playing 2000+ points). But the usual caveats apply with regards to Force Weapons/ID and, to a lesser extent, Grav shooting (the FNP boost helps tremendously I find).
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Hellstrom
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PostSubject: Re: Using a Dark Artisan Warlord Bunker   Sun Feb 22 2015, 14:21

I love my Agoniser and Sump on the Haemy. I know no one else thinks it's worth it, but it helps me get though marines twice as fast and enables me to accept pretty much challenge that isn't wearing 2+ armour.
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PostSubject: Re: Using a Dark Artisan Warlord Bunker   Sun Feb 22 2015, 14:27

@Hellstrom wrote:
I love my Agoniser and Sump on the Haemy.  I know no one else thinks it's worth it, but it helps me get though marines twice as fast and enables me to accept pretty much challenge that isn't wearing 2+ armour.

Sadly, I face an awful lot of 2+ saves. Although, even if I didn't, the Agoniser just seems too expensive for such a niche weapon (especially when Haemonculi have cheap weapons that are actually decent).

In any case, do you also give your Haemonculus the Vexator Mask, or are you comfortable accepting challenges with just his I5?
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Hellstrom
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PostSubject: Re: Using a Dark Artisan Warlord Bunker   Sun Feb 22 2015, 18:37

I don't use the mask. Not a bad upgrade though.

I also don't see an AP3 weapon as that niche, but like you say, I suppose that's very dependant on who you are fighting against. I just shoot infantry with 2+ armour with our multitude of AP2 guns.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Using a Dark Artisan Warlord Bunker   Sun Feb 22 2015, 19:09

@Hellstrom wrote:
I don't use the mask. Not a bad upgrade though.

I also don't see an AP3 weapon as that niche, but like you say, I suppose that's very dependant on who you are fighting against.

I call it a niche weapon because you're paying the same price as a Power Fist for something that's not even remotely as versatile (can't touch 2+ saves, can't touch vehicles, can't ID anything etc.).

@Hellstrom wrote:
I just shoot infantry with 2+ armour with our multitude of AP2 guns.

I find that most of my AP2 guns are busy shooting vehicles. Razz

In all seriousness though, is your AP2 shooting not busy taking down vehicles, or do you still tend to have plenty of AP2 weapons left to shoot infantry or MCs with 2+ saves?
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Hellstrom
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PostSubject: Re: Using a Dark Artisan Warlord Bunker   Sun Feb 22 2015, 21:17

I agree with the overcoating, but it's the best weapon available. Nothing else kills as reliably.

I always take a dissie ravager, so nearly always have that spare to shoot infantry :-)
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