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 Webway Portal, who is misreading the rules.

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thesaltedwound
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PostSubject: Re: Webway Portal, who is misreading the rules.   Mon Mar 02 2015, 11:15

Red King +1. That was the same example I used in my group the first time I played new WWP and nobody had a problem with it since.

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Archon Rievect
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PostSubject: Re: Webway Portal, who is misreading the rules.   Tue Mar 03 2015, 02:44

I will keep running it like Samuel44 has posted, basically it is same position as I maintain... To suggest otherwise would be ridiculous and if I am called on it I will just state it makes NO rational sense to interpret it in any other way..... if pushed... FINE, my HQ and unit will just WWP deploy from the transport RIGHT where I want them.... and the raider or whatever can scatter away to engage another target, meanwhile my now deployed unit will do whatever voodoo it can do.....

Sooo, you want basically 1 unit deepstriking all together or you want to deppstriking into different areas at the same time?? Makes no difference to me and it proves the GW writers are idiots for NOT PROPERLY WORDING the rule/capability for an item OR they do not know how to properly proof read before publishing...... which we know happens all the time.......
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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: Webway Portal, who is misreading the rules.   Tue Mar 03 2015, 08:52

@Archon Rievect wrote:
it proves the GW writers are idiots for NOT PROPERLY WORDING  the rule/capability for an item OR they do not know how to properly proof read before publishing...... which we know happens all the time.......

What it also proves is that some people will twist every possible interpretation of a set of written rules to give them every possible advantage in what is at its heart - a game.

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Archon Rievect
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PostSubject: Re: Webway Portal, who is misreading the rules.   Fri Mar 06 2015, 09:20

@The_Burning_Eye wrote:
@Archon Rievect wrote:
it proves the GW writers are idiots for NOT PROPERLY WORDING  the rule/capability for an item OR they do not know how to properly proof read before publishing...... which we know happens all the time.......

What it also proves is that some people will twist every possible interpretation of a set of written rules to give them every possible advantage in what is at its heart - a game.

Hmm, not sure if that was a shot directed at me or not..... when it comes to ambiguous wording,contradictory wording and maybe a laughable FAQ 'clarification'Rolling Eyes I always try to be as rational about it as i can, yes it is a game and i try to enjoy it, god knows I have enough aggro in my life already... do not need it in my 'relaxing hobby' also.

BUT trying to point out what the wording and most rational and reasonable interpretation of a rule is....escapes most power players or opponents trying to get the upper hand at any and all costs....

I guess my final word is- WWP is like a homing beacon that locks onto to a specific area and opens into such an area as to NOT have the affected unit plow into rocks and such....and since the HOLDER of the WWP is in a vehicle and 'somehow' the vehicles nav system is tied into the WWP 'device'... it cannot help BUT emerge from the WWP exactly where the coordinates place it... after all Eldar and DELDAR are the pros at this webway stuff... right?

Lied-one more comment.... WHAT GW nimrod or committee decided to limit the Archon to a VENOM as a dedicated transport?? oh yea, the ones that cried when a raider or tantalus DS-ed into their rear...... BUT a Succubus can still take it and be in a Raider and do the same thing.... Rolling Eyes

Dont get me started also about GW's mental midget decision on them pulling the characters to screw their customer base and 3rd party companies who were supplying a demand because GW refused to , too lazy to or is too stupid to....
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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: Webway Portal, who is misreading the rules.   Fri Mar 06 2015, 11:27

@Archon Rievect - no it wasn't a shot directed at you.

The description of the webway portal in the codex describes it as a device that is thrown into the air in front of the wielder that opens a portal through which the dark eldar forces travel onto the battlefield, so I really can't see how anyone can justify saying it should scatter for some units but not others.

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PostSubject: Re: Webway Portal, who is misreading the rules.   Fri Mar 06 2015, 19:12

@The_Burning_Eye wrote:
@Archon Rievect - no it wasn't a shot directed at you.

The description of the webway portal in the codex describes it as a device that is thrown into the air in front of the wielder that opens a portal through which the dark eldar forces travel onto the battlefield, so I really can't see how anyone can justify saying it should scatter for some units but not others.


Thank you and I agree totally.... Very Happy
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Bleaksoul Brethren
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PostSubject: Re: Webway Portal, who is misreading the rules.   Sun Mar 08 2015, 05:03

First I'm sorry if I came off as a jerk me and my friends get into animated discussions about the rules when we disagree Trust me when I say I want the portal to work that way but it comes down to which one you read and which one trumps which. I actually didn't see the other rule until a day before I wrote this entire thread because it isn't under the wargear section of the rules. I still think that until the faq clears it up (unlikely) that we should follow the pg 108 ruling and if you play in my area most of the people that have gone against me will want to play that way (at least the ones that I have discussed this with) what y'all do is up to you.
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colinsherlow
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PostSubject: Re: Webway Portal, who is misreading the rules.   Sun Mar 08 2015, 12:07

Just seems that you are completely disregarding the other written version of the wwp. The digital version says that the vehicle does not scatter. That needs to be taken into account as well

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PostSubject: Re: Webway Portal, who is misreading the rules.   Mon Mar 09 2015, 00:51

I would like to know what page in the digital codex this is mentioned, so I can go find someone who has it and either take a pic of it and print it out so I can do my own FAQ or at least look to see if the digital copy I have jives with the one you have or refer to.... I really do not like the PDF books... hard copy in hand always better......

But,moving on-----


Out of my book page 108-

'If a model with a webway portal is in reserves or ongoing reserves, then the model and any unit it has joined or is embarked upon has the deep strike special rule. This model and his unit will not scatter if arriving from deep strike reserve'

So in my mind it is pretty much set in stone that neither vehicle or unit scatter.... period..

**NOW- either the committee or the 'proof readers' figure it is clear enough written as is OR they figure players would not become grammer nazis.... TO BE 10000000% CLEAR on this.... the last sentence SHOULD PROBABLY BE WRITTEN AS FOLLOWS-

'ahem'- 'This model and his unit>> AND/OR THE UNIT(transport/vehicle) EMBARKED UPON<< will not scatter if arriving from Deep Strike  Reserve.'

To me as it is written in the DE Codex is clear enough to me BECAUSE in the WD when they introduced the Succubus and the raiding party kit  in the writing it has described a WWP deep strike.... consisting of the succubus+wyches+raider ... no either/or/instead of,blah blah....

I believe somewhere I saw the mention of the Haemi coven force doing it also...(?)

So I consider the issue decided and woe be it an opponent who cannot use deductive or inductive reasoning to understand the writing in the book...... I am usually a good guy but I do play DE for a reason and it has to do with a facet of my personality.........

Same reason I play SOB's and used to play CSM's.......

Anyway I wish us all well in our games and sometimes I wish agonisers were not only a game item.... but maybe a 100k volt cattle prod will work also... Twisted Evil
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Webway Portal, who is misreading the rules.   Fri May 08 2015, 16:15

I just read the German version and both parts in the book regarding the WWP as saying the same: the unit it joined and any vehicle it is embarked on don't scatter. And since the translation is done by games workshop in the HQ I have no doubt how it should be placed.
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Archon Rievect
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PostSubject: Re: Webway Portal, who is misreading the rules.   Fri May 08 2015, 17:43

Thank you for the additional confirmation.
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JackKnife01
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PostSubject: Re: Webway Portal, who is misreading the rules.   Sun May 10 2015, 18:32

The unit that he joins is the unit inside. The unit elects to take a dedicated transport which is conferred as one of the unit not a separate vehicle. If it did then the raider would be taking a fast attack slot. Since it counts as a troop and is part of the unit the archon is apart of
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Leninade
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PostSubject: Re: Webway Portal, who is misreading the rules.   Fri May 29 2015, 22:42

Holy frak rules lawyers, Batman.
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ndphoto
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PostSubject: Re: Webway Portal, who is misreading the rules.   Sat Aug 29 2015, 21:55

For me it's quite clear and I intend to use it to create the following unit:

Archon wwp
Parasites kiss amongst other things
Dedicated Venom

20 True born
16 with splinters
4 with blasters

= 45 poisoned shots
8 S8 AP 2 shots
All placed exactly where I want them as a hammer blow that should knock out any infantry and make a mess of any accompanying vehicles.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Webway Portal, who is misreading the rules.   Sun Aug 30 2015, 08:59

But you can't deep Strike both with the portal. There are too many people for them to be embarked in the Venom
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PostSubject: Re: Webway Portal, who is misreading the rules.   Sun Aug 30 2015, 09:07

The Archon is joining the unit of 20 Trueborn. The Vernon is his dedicated transport, the Trueborn are on foot.
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PostSubject: Re: Webway Portal, who is misreading the rules.   Sun Aug 30 2015, 09:07

*Venom
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Webway Portal, who is misreading the rules.   Sun Aug 30 2015, 10:15

So the Venoms doesn´t transport the Archon and thus can´t deep strike with it. You can still deep strike it normally though.

The german rules cover that.

What I don´t know is, if you can roll one dice for the venom and the big blob squad.
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PostSubject: Re: Webway Portal, who is misreading the rules.   Sun Aug 30 2015, 10:53

@ndphoto wrote:
The Archon is joining the unit of 20 Trueborn. The Vernon is his dedicated transport, the Trueborn are on foot.

The Venom does not benefit from the WWP. The Archon needs to be embarked on it.

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PostSubject: Re: Webway Portal, who is misreading the rules.   Sun Aug 30 2015, 11:02

How come the Venom does not benefit?
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Webway Portal, who is misreading the rules.   Sun Aug 30 2015, 11:36

@ndphoto wrote:
How come the Venom does not benefit?

Quote from the german codex: Befindet sich ein Modell mit Portalfokus in Reserve oder in aktiver Reserve (If a model with WWP is in reserve), dann haben das Modell und jede Einheit, der es sich angeschlossen hat oder von der es transportiert wird (the model and every unit it joins or that it is transported by (from?)), die Sonderregel Schcktruppen (got the deep strike special rule). Dieses Modell und seine Einheiten weichen nicht ab, falls sie aus der Schocktruppen-Reserve eintreffen (furthermore..bla bla don´t scatter bla).
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PostSubject: Re: Webway Portal, who is misreading the rules.   Sun Aug 30 2015, 11:40

Forgive me, I'm still learning 40k rules but as far as I can see there is no issue with this because:

My Archon has a dedicated Venom so he and the Venom are one unit. He's an independent character so can join another unit as long as that unit don't have a transport. He's joining a unit of 20 Trueborn, no issue with that as far as I can see. I then give him the WWP.

WWP rule: "The model and any unit it had joined or is embarked upon has the deep strike special rule. This model and his unit will not scatter"

I don't even see this as a cheesy way of exploiting a poorly written rule, it seems quite straight forward to me.
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PostSubject: Re: Webway Portal, who is misreading the rules.   Sun Aug 30 2015, 11:43

I don't understand why German rules are any more relevant than the UK rule book. Or is it because that's the book you are quoting from?
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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Webway Portal, who is misreading the rules.   Sun Aug 30 2015, 12:16

Quote :
My Archon has a dedicated Venom so he and the Venom are one unit.

No they are not. They are 2 different units.
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ndphoto
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PostSubject: Re: Webway Portal, who is misreading the rules.   Sun Aug 30 2015, 12:25

Wow, didn't know that. So where it states in the Codex that an Archon can take a dedicated transport, that transport actually becomes a separate unit?! That's not what the rule book states, had it been changed in an FAQ.
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