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 Anti tank at range

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Rancid blade
Kabalite Warrior


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Join date : 2011-05-27

PostSubject: Anti tank at range   Thu Feb 12 2015, 17:08

I am looking for a good anti tank option at range. DE really don't have any good options here.

Dark Lances just don't cut it anymore. Most vehicles you'll see are AV 12 and a dark lance's chance of exploding a vehicle is pretty small (AV 12+ is just under 4% and AV 11 is about 6%). With those numbers in mind you might as well use haywire and glance the thing to death... When I look at loading up on dark lances in ravagers or on warriors, I groan at how many points I am spending for a gun that will probably only glance anyway.

Heat lances don't have the range. If you're in melta range you're exposing yourself.

So, I have doubled down on Haywire Scourges like everyone else, but Scourges are pretty fragile...

What's an Archon to do? Any thoughts? And don't say Wave Serpents...

RB
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Erebus
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PostSubject: Re: Anti tank at range   Thu Feb 12 2015, 17:50

Ravagers rarely did anything for me, personally, but they are arguably DE's best long range anti-tank option, especially first turn. I stopped using them when the new codex dropped because of the (minor) points increase and the loss of Aerial Assault, but I've been debating including them again.

If your concern with vehicle damage is whether you destroy the vehicle or not, you're looking at it wrong. Causing it to fire snap snots reduces a vehicle's efficiency to negligibility, destroying one of its weapons also reduces its efficiency (or neuters it, in some cases), and immobilising a vehicle can often render it practically useless against us due to our mobility. It's about threat reduction, not destruction.

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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: Anti tank at range   Thu Feb 12 2015, 18:39

I come back to use 2 Ravagers at 1500 points. That's because I need some AT fire in long distances.

Ravagers can pressure the enemy at first turn, witch is what I need to my gamestyle Smile
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Rancid blade
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PostSubject: Re: Anti tank at range   Thu Feb 12 2015, 18:52

I think you guys make a better case for Ravagers than I had given them. I did a little math... So, for each ravager that fires you have a 32% chance of damaging your target and making it snap fire in one way or another... (a 54% chance of impacting it's fire one way or another, including explode and weapon dest.). Also, people with skimmers often think Ravagers are a pop-a-tank button, so they jink a lot of the time, which renders the effect you wanted in the first place.

I keep learning that to make Dark Eldar effective you have to change your goals from kill your opponent to hurt you opponent... Which makes a lot of sense.

RB
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Cerve
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: Anti tank at range   Thu Feb 12 2015, 19:13

@Rancid blade wrote:
I think you guys make a better case for Ravagers than I had given them.  I did a little math...  So, for each ravager that fires you have a 32% chance of damaging your target and making it snap fire in one way or another... (a 54% chance of impacting it's fire one way or another, including explode and weapon dest.).  Also, people with skimmers often think Ravagers are a pop-a-tank button, so they jink a lot of the time, which renders the effect you wanted in the first place.  

I keep learning that to make Dark Eldar effective you have to change your goals from kill your opponent to hurt you opponent...  Which makes a lot of sense.  

RB

But...I want to push other skimmers to jink, I want fire at the first turn, and Ravagers are here for this.
And, I WANT the enemy shoot at my Rava Smile They are an awesome distraction
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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: Anti tank at range   Fri Feb 13 2015, 09:25

Ravagers are still our best long range anti tank - nothing else can tough them in terms of the combined holy trinity of range, cost and firepower.

As has been suggested, the main purpose of them is to reduce incoming fire, either by destroying other vehicles, or neutralising them.

I played against an eldar list last night with a fire prism, two wave serpents and a crimson hunter, and the threat of the dark lances was enough to either force jinks or damage to require snap shots. Those vehicles didn't go down quickly, but even the serpent shields and twin linked scatter lasers were rendered effectively pointless because of what the ravagers and other dark lances did to them (ironically, and i guess inevitably, when my opponent chose not to jink, i managed to pen, when he did, i whiffed the damage rolls, but hey that's how it goes sometimes!)

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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: Anti tank at range   Fri Feb 13 2015, 20:35

@The_Burning_Eye wrote:
(ironically, and i guess inevitably, when my opponent chose not to jink, i managed to pen, when he did, i whiffed the damage rolls, but hey that's how it goes sometimes!)

That's how it ALWAYS is. The dark lance is the most cursed weapon of all the 40K universe!
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Rokuro
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PostSubject: Re: Anti tank at range   Fri Feb 13 2015, 22:50

If Dark Lances aren't good enough, the only better option is the Void Lance.
Downside: The only unit that can have it is the Void Raven. Razz
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