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 The Dark Eldar could easily destroy the Imperium if they wanted to

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Anastari
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PostSubject: The Dark Eldar could easily destroy the Imperium if they wanted to   Mon Feb 09 2015, 02:54

If the Dark Eldar wanted to destroy the Imperium, all they would have to do is launch several simultaneous attacks against the Imperium's agri-worlds. From what I've been able to gather from the 40k lore, the agri-worlds are poorly defended worlds that are entirely dedicated for farming, usually 1 particular type of crop or live stock for food(which makes them very susceptible to disease outbreaks). These planets are responsible for supplying all adjacent worlds, including forge worlds and hive worlds which are incapable of producing food, the food they need in order to keep the populations and the imperial armies from starving. The populations of these worlds usually number around 1 million and due to the heavy specialization into agriculture, these worlds have little to no military defense structures. Since the Dark Eldar are essentially capable of attacking any world they want thanks to their webway portals, the task of attacking all major agri-worlds simultaneously would be quite easy for them. Once the food supplies are destroy whether it be through biological weapons(something the Dark Eldar have advance technology in) or simply destroying all the farms, all of the major imperial worlds won't be able to sustain themselves and would most likely cause the Imperium to collapse due to famine, anarchy, and disease. What do you guys think of this?
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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Eldar could easily destroy the Imperium if they wanted to   Mon Feb 09 2015, 02:59

But where would the slaves come from? The other Eldar are too few, the Tau too few, chaos unbecomming; marines would have nothing to fight for anymore really; Imperium being dead and all. Nids are all well and good, and the other random races are there, but kinda crappy as worker-slaves.

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Anastari
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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Eldar could easily destroy the Imperium if they wanted to   Mon Feb 09 2015, 03:02

Hence the, "If they wanted to" statement. Obviously, having the Imperium around is a boon to the Dark Eldar and Eldar as not only do they provide slaves, but they act as a shield from outside forces.
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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Eldar could easily destroy the Imperium if they wanted to   Mon Feb 09 2015, 06:24

Do you quite sure there is enough kabals\raiding parties to target each agri-world ? Imperium has more then million worlds, you know.

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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Eldar could easily destroy the Imperium if they wanted to   Mon Feb 09 2015, 14:06

They could not easily destroy the Imperium. They could cripple it, but no where near destroy it. It would be impossible to target every Agri-World at the same time, and those Agri-worlds that survived would be fortified immediately. Further-more when threatened with starvation, it's amazing how much room Non-Agri-Worlds could give over to farm some Grox. And after the Guard has been raised Dark Eldar have no chance simply because the Imperial Guard can entirely fill the Sky with Flakk.

Of course, moving all forces to defend Agri-worlds would open up other opportunities but then your really teasing the Beast. I know they were let in last time, but is a sufficiently powerful Psyker got his way in Commaragh he could cause all kinds of trouble by opening up a warp portal.
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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Eldar could easily destroy the Imperium if they wanted to   Mon Feb 09 2015, 14:53

I think it would be more successful to make well chosen and small strikes to more critically important command locations and targets (not that food-sources wouldn't be more important in the long run) and maybe try to throw the Imperium into confusion and divert them.
Then just open up a portal to the original target while the imperium chases the projection of a massive fleet elsewhere.


Biggest problem for a massive raid is to get everyone on board... imagine if all orks would never fight one another and just decided to take over the entire galaxy in unison.
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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Eldar could easily destroy the Imperium if they wanted to   Tue Feb 10 2015, 02:00

@alexwellace The Dark Eldar would not need to target every Agri-World. Only the ones responsible for supplying major front line worlds such as Cadia. Something that you seem to be forgetting is that the Imperium is at war with more factions than you can count with two hands. If those front line worlds stop receiving supplies, such as Cadia, they will succumb to starvation and rebellion, which would make for easy prey for the Chaos Legions constantly attacking Cadia; this is just one example. Now imagine this event along every major front. The end result is that knocking out these critical agri-worlds would lead to a domino effect resulting in the Imperium unable to hold on to its front lines from its major enemies and eventually leading the Imperium into a death spiral.

There is no way the Imperium could prevent the destruction of their major agri-worlds, because they are undefended, have extremely low population densities, and by the time the reinforcements arrive the Dark Eldar would be long gone. Also, attempting to turn over non-agri planets to agri-planets would take far too long for it to be considered a viable option. Not only do the farms have to be produce, but the crops or live stock have to be grown and then transported, in the meantime the front lines are crumbling. In short, those resources will never get where they are suppose to go in time.

@Mngwa Trying to destroy the Imperium by eliminating Military facilities would be a vein effort. The thing that the Imperium invests the majority of all of its resources in is military. Wiping large portions of their military, even their commanders, would do very little, since the Imperium would easily be able to replace them. They most likely have reserves on standby for just such an occasion.

Getting Dark Eldar to work together is actually quite easy, as they will always work together so long as each party has something to be gained by the alliance. In this case, not only are there significant quantities of resources and undefended populations to be taken as slaves, but the idea of inflicting large scale suffering due to starvation as a result of the raid would probably be too tempting for the Dark Eldar to ignore. In addition, the anarchy produced from the famine would open up more opportunities for more raiding.


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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Eldar could easily destroy the Imperium if they wanted to   Tue Feb 10 2015, 02:40

@Anastari wrote:


Getting Dark Eldar to work together is actually quite easy, as they will always work together so long as each party has something to be gained by the alliance. In this case, not only are there significant quantities of resources and undefended populations to be taken as slaves, but the idea of inflicting large scale suffering due to starvation as a result of the raid would probably be too tempting for the Dark Eldar to ignore. In addition, the anarchy produced from the famine would open up more opportunities for more raiding.



I disagree with your assumption to unite the DE factions to work all together, Vect would have you slowly killed, you'd wish your ambition wasn't so high. In a backstabbing society like the DE, your plan would folly unless you're Vect or replacing him.

This takes me to the game 'last of us', your ideals will undoubtly clash with others, making it all work its neigh impossible, something will go wrong.
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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Eldar could easily destroy the Imperium if they wanted to   Tue Feb 10 2015, 04:01

@macknight My point is that if a prestigious and intelligent Archon, such as Lady Malys or even Vect wanted to conduct the plan they could do it. Lesser Archons would be foolish to oppose since they are simply too weak to outright oppose. In all honesty though, I don't think lesser Archons would want to oppose since they would see the raids a way of improving their own standing in Dark Eldar society.
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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Eldar could easily destroy the Imperium if they wanted to   Tue Feb 10 2015, 05:32

I don't think it would be easy, but I think the Dark Eldar could do it.

I also think they wouldn't want to. The Imperium is too rich a source of food and entertainment for them. You don't wipe out the cattle if you like hamburgers.

But if the True Kin all decided they were tired of beef, we've got some problems. How big is the Imperium? How big is Commorragh? The best answers we have are "unknowably huge" and "bigger than anyone suspects," which isn't particularly helpful. However, since it's certain that the Dark Eldar would not launch a conventional military war of conquest, our inability to compare military assets probably doesn't matter.

The Imperium suffers from a number of serious handicaps. They rely on psykers for interstellar communication, which is unreliable at the best of times, and subject to all sorts of interference. They rely on the warp for interstellar travel, which is extremely unreliable: whole fleets are can be lost, or show up a century late, or worse. Finally, they are shackled to an absurdist dystopian bureaucracy: whole planets starve because the paperwork was misfiled; requests for reinforcements can take centuries to process.

The Imperium is incapable reacting to anything quickly, save for its feudal lord type individuals, who have the resources and authority to take matters into their own hands, at least on a relatively small scale - Inquisitors, Marine chapters, etc.

The Dark Eldar are repeatedly shown in the flavor to be able to make such people dead with impunity, wherever they happen to be. Lord Korscht (found smeared across every page of every book in his library after stopping a Dark Eldar raid on Demoisne) and Princeps Gendath (found hacked to death within his amniotic tank after defeating the Dark Eldar at Lapradus) are examples of this. True Kin pursue the alternative - mounting an entire raid to target a single individual - out of a desire to humiliate the target and for the fun of it, not because they have to.

I think that if the Dark Eldar wanted to destroy the Imperium, rather than harvesting it for slaves and souls, it would take a few hundred years of gathering intel, assassinating key individuals, unleashing tailored bioplagues, manipulating other prey species like Orks and Tyranids into doing their work for them, and enacting assorted diabolical plans (I think a single plan, such as targeting agri-worlds, would be insufficient). I think Dark Eldar are simply too intelligent, too technologically advanced, and too uniquely suited to exploit the Imperium's weaknesses for humanity to be able to stop them.

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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Eldar could easily destroy the Imperium if they wanted to   Tue Feb 10 2015, 10:32

@Calyptra wrote:
I think Dark Eldar are simply too intelligent, too technologically advanced, and too uniquely suited to exploit the Imperium's weaknesses for humanity to be able to stop them.

How true. I agree with you 100%. Such planning is also much more fun then raiding agricultural world. Think of it, 1 million people spread over a planet. Is like finding a box of needles in a haystack - it's not fun. It's boring as the time it takes you to travel from one camp to the next is to great, and with such little cattle it's not rally fun.
And as already said, a farmer does not want to ruin his crop. ;-)

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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Eldar could easily destroy the Imperium if they wanted to   Wed Feb 11 2015, 02:51

@Calyptra I still think the Dark Eldar couldn't pull it off without targeting agri-worlds. While targeting key individuals would be beneficial, in the long run if this is all the Dark Eldar are doing it won't make a difference due to how easily the Imperium could replace them. The Dark Eldar don't actually have to raid the agri-worlds in order to destroy them, since the imperium only farms one particular item per agri-world, a plague could wipe out all the crops within a relatively short period of time.

My thinking as to why the Dark Eldar would want to do this is if for some reason they became interested in restoring the old Eldar empire.
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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Eldar could easily destroy the Imperium if they wanted to   Wed Feb 11 2015, 03:01

@Anastari wrote:
Getting Dark Eldar to work together is actually quite easy, as they will always work together so long as each party has something to be gained by the alliance.

That's .. funny.  Often the alliances that form are because a couple Archons are trying to knock off a third Archon and they can't do it alone.  Or rather, one of them actually wants to kill their ally and found the most entertaining way to do it was to pretend to help them stop a rival.  There are numerous permutations of this which can provide years of fun.  The point is, you can absolutely bet that when you have any number of Archons agreeing with each other it's only because they are deciding exactly when and where to plunge the knife in the others.  I honestly think GW should consider having a rule stating that two archons in the same army can only function as desperate allies.

Dark Eldar live a very very long time.  It doesn't take that long to figure out that acquisition of wealth (or power) is meaningless if you don't exercise it.  Therefore it becomes just a means to an end.  Again, those "ends" usually involving the fun times had by seeing the entrails of rivals (real or imagined) dangling nicely from a chandelier.  Apex predators enjoy hunting other apex predators because that is how their skills are truly measured.  Shooting monkeigh's all day, every day would get old.  Taking down a rival whose been alive for thousands of years with a plan 200 years in the making... now that is some satisfaction.

My point is, there is no situation in which the DE would seek wholesale extermination of humanity. First off, you couldn't get them to stay a cohesive force long enough for it to happen.  Regardless, taking out the agri worlds is just too much.  Instead a far easier solution is just to kill the human psykers piloting the space ships.   Start with the black ships because those are the ones picking up new recruits.  Then move onto the regular rank and file.  I suspect some of the larger Kabals could take out an entire sector relatively quickly by themselves.  

@Anastari wrote:

In this case, not only are there significant quantities of resources and undefended populations to be taken as slaves, but the idea of inflicting large scale suffering due to starvation as a result of the raid would probably be too tempting for the Dark Eldar to ignore. In addition, the anarchy produced from the famine would open up more opportunities for more raiding.

I disagree entirely.   As others have pointed out, you don't kill all the cows if you want to eat steak in the future.

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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Eldar could easily destroy the Imperium if they wanted to   Wed Feb 11 2015, 06:11

Okay first off, not every world has a WWP. Also worth mentioning is that the Eldar know how to navigate the Webway but they do not know where every tunnel leads. Secondly, raiding parties are serious bussiness to the Deldar and most if not all raids either make or break a Kabals reputation in the Dark City and they are costly affairs. Meaning that they have to pick and choose the best planet to attack. Thirdly the Deldars favorite targets are Exodite worlds, simply because they are easy picking and more importantly they play host to a WWP 99.9% the time.

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PostSubject: Re: The Dark Eldar could easily destroy the Imperium if they wanted to   Wed Feb 11 2015, 09:14

To my mind this is a bit of an irrelevant point from the start. Yes, the Dark Eldar could probably eliminate the Imperium if they wished. The Imperium could certainly wipe out the Dark Eldar if they wished, but it's not going to happen for a multitude of reasons. You might as well point out that if all the Orks in the galaxy decided to work together they could destroy pretty much every other civilisation out there, but they're not organised enough to do it.

If you really wanted to destroy the Imperium, the Emperor is the ideal strike point, and if you can open portals wherever you like then that's where you'd do it.

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