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 What do you use a non-coven Haemonculus for?

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: What do you use a non-coven Haemonculus for?   Fri Feb 06 2015, 15:44

Basically the title. I can understand the appeal of a Coven Haemonculus (and regularly use them) - Fearless on turn 1, IWND on turn 3, Zealot on turn 4 etc.

However, as I'm messing around with coven-less lists, I'm wracking (ha!) my brain to try and work out why you'd use a standard Haemonculus.

I guess the main point is that his bonus doesn't seem nearly as useful. On Coven units, he does nothing for a full 2 turns and, in many cases, nothing for the third either.

On most other units, 6+ FNP on turn 1 is rarely anything to shout about. 5+ FNP on turn 2 is a little better, but on the other hand you're generally trying to avoid damage rather than tanking it. By turn 3, you'd have the main bonus anyway and FC is worthless on a lot of units. Hell, Fearless is arguably a detrimental ability for our warriors.

I guess he might be useful on Incubi, though he does slow them down in the process (and many people would perhaps prefer a more killy character).

In essence, with pfp becoming a certainty (and rarely spectacular), I'm questioning the usefulness of getting the benefits a turn early.


So, what am I missing? What do you use a standard Haemonculus for?
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: What do you use a non-coven Haemonculus for?   Fri Feb 06 2015, 15:52

This is pretty much a question about whether the standard PfP abilities are actually any use to us. If they are then getting them one turn early is good. If not then it isn't.

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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: What do you use a non-coven Haemonculus for?   Fri Feb 06 2015, 15:52

Cheap durable HQ with no need to take other coven units. He is ok in regular Kabalite raider squad. Earlier Fearless and FnP.

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: What do you use a non-coven Haemonculus for?   Fri Feb 06 2015, 16:12

@Count Adhemar wrote:
This is pretty much a question about whether the standard PfP abilities are actually any use to us. If they are then getting them one turn early is good. If not then it isn't.

That's true, but I'd say it's also a matter of whether gaining them a turn early for one specific squad is worth it.

@Azdrubael wrote:
Cheap durable HQ with no need to take other coven units. He is ok in regular Kabalite raider squad. Earlier Fearless and FnP.

Is a 'regular' kabalite raider squad a 10-man squad or a 5-man squad? I ask because I've seen (and used) both.
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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: What do you use a non-coven Haemonculus for?   Fri Feb 06 2015, 16:56

Larger one, 9 man, since we making it tougher.

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Mahakala
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PostSubject: Re: What do you use a non-coven Haemonculus for?   Fri Feb 06 2015, 17:12

I'm not necessarily recommending this as a strategy, but I've WWP deep struck a unit of Heat Lance toting Scourges with a Haemi behind Pask and exploded him, then detached Haemi to let Scourge fleet away. In the meantime you have the FNP buff for your 4++ or cover save until he leaves that next turn.  But you also have a solo HQ model that probably doesn't have a boat load of wargear due to the WWP.  

I've also used the same tactic twice against a Space Wolf unit, once with success and once things went horribly wrong.

Just saying...  I don't think it's the best strategy, but it has worked for me before.

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Wolfsark
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PostSubject: Re: What do you use a non-coven Haemonculus for?   Thu Feb 12 2015, 00:30

Not sure how practical this would be but you could attach him to a wrack squad and make a crazy Webway Portal template bomb with liquifier guns. If you have 10 wracks in a squad, 2 of them can take liquifier guns, the Acothyst can take one, as well as the Haemonculus himself. Of course, this would cost an insane amount of points with very little returning value. However, it would be frak hilarious. I would love to see the look on some poor AM/IG player's face as I drop 4 templates on turn 2 right on top of his platoon command squad he parked safely behind an aegis defense line.
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nexs
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PostSubject: Re: What do you use a non-coven Haemonculus for?   Thu Feb 12 2015, 00:51

I use him to WWP my heat lances into melta range. That is all.
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Rokuro
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PostSubject: Re: What do you use a non-coven Haemonculus for?   Fri Feb 13 2015, 23:20

I use my codex Haemy with Helm of Spite, WWP and a unit of either Wyches or Wracks (depending if I'm more likely to get assaulted or shot at) to intercept enemy psykers. I deepstrike the next to the psyker's unit and try to tarpit them, while the Helm makes them perril on all doubles.

Works pretty well against armies that have only one, not very mobile psyker. But I wouldn't try it against Grey Knights, Tzeentch or certain Eldar lists.
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Leninade
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PostSubject: Re: What do you use a non-coven Haemonculus for?   Fri Feb 13 2015, 23:31

I would use a non-coven haemonculus to give my grotesquerie 2 support models. That's about it though
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Mr Believer
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PostSubject: Re: What do you use a non-coven Haemonculus for?   Tue Feb 17 2015, 21:19

I probably wouldn't use one at all anymore. If someone's bringing a unit through the webway I don't want to throw them away, and that seems like what's going to happen with him. The increased cost of him plus the fact that the Succubus can be kitted out fairly nastily means she's first pick for me, then a tricksy Archon bringing a specific squad with him, then a Haemonculus. Actually, I'd probably take Urien or maybe even Lelith before I took a regular Haemonculus now, he's very low down the pecking order for me.

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