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 The Pragmatic Realspace Raider: Multiple Targets and Overlapping Fire

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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: The Pragmatic Realspace Raider: Multiple Targets and Overlapping Fire   Mon Feb 02 2015, 20:39

The Pragmatic Realspace Raider: Multiple Targets and Overlapping Fire

These guides aim to give bitesize advice on the benefits of being pragmatic when playing 40k. They do not intend to delve into mathematical analysis of whether or not the units used in the example are optimal or cost effective, nor do they intend to cover load outs or configurations. Those will be left for other discussions. It is also worth noting that the examples in these guides are simplified for clarity, of course in practice there will be more units involved.

This article aims to illustrate the advantage of having your shooting units in range of multiple targets (and fire arc) as well as having multiple shooting units in range of your intended target (overlapping fire).

Note: These examples assume that raiders have a pessimistic fire arc of 90 degrees (it can also be applied to fixed hull weapons like the underslung splinter cannon of the venom or the dark lances of the razorwing).

Example 1:



In this example the three raiders and ravager in the centre only have the baal predator on the right in their fire arc. If the ravager gets lucky and destroys the predator (or cripple it sufficiently), the three raiders will be left with nothing to shoot.

The ravager on the left and the raider on the far right are the only vehicles that have the leftmost baal predator in their fire arcs. If they get unlucky and fail to destroy it, there are no other lances in the army that can target it. This can be particularly bad in the case of first blood were the predator to be left alive with a single hull point!

The above illustrates some of the disadvantages of not having multiple targets and overlapping fire.

Example 2:



In this example the four raiders and the ravager can engage both baal predators (the one on the far left and the one on the right). This means the dark eldar player has redundancy in his shooting. If the ravager on the far left fails to destroy the predator on the left, the other dark eldar vehicles can engage it. On the other hand if the ravager on the left destroyed the baal predator on the left, the remaining ravager and four raiders can all engage the baal predator on the right. If the Dark Eldar player is exceptionally lucky and takes out both baal predators then the remaining dark lances can engage the razorback between the two predators.

In conclusion ensuring your shooting units have multiple targets and overlapping fire gives your shooting phase redundancy in case of bad rolls, whilst at the same time allowing you to inflict maximum damage in case of good rolls. This can be key to a successful shooting phase.

Hope you enjoyed this guide! Razz

For more guides checkout #ThePragmaticRealspaceRaider

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: The Pragmatic Realspace Raider: Multiple Targets and Overlapping Fire   Mon Feb 02 2015, 21:07

Nice to see guides in 7th that aren't just about list-building.

Great work, Mushkilla. Smile
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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: The Pragmatic Realspace Raider: Multiple Targets and Overlapping Fire   Mon Feb 02 2015, 21:23

@The Shredder wrote:
Nice to see guides in 7th that aren't just about list-building.

Great work, Mushkilla. Smile

Thanks! The example diagrams are actually from an old 6th edition battle report (shh don't tell anyone Wink). I find a lot of these things tend to tracend editions, with little to no modification. I do miss focus fire sometimes...Very Happy

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: The Pragmatic Realspace Raider: Multiple Targets and Overlapping Fire   Mon Feb 02 2015, 21:39

Reminds me a lot of my bubbles article - but I definitely agree, overlapping them (and also understanding firing order) is darn helpful.

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PostSubject: Re: The Pragmatic Realspace Raider: Multiple Targets and Overlapping Fire   Mon Feb 02 2015, 21:40

I'd also add to this excellent article the importance of shooting in the right order to maximise your options; there was an excellent tactica years back on this forum which discussed threat bubbles, fire priority and ordering, but I forget where it was, and by whom.

When it comes to the shooting phase, it is easiest to work from one side of your army to the other, shooting from each unit on the basis of "what's this unit's best shot?", but this does not maximise your efficiency.
The old article suggested looking at your whole army, and ordering the shooting so that guns with only a single viable target shoot first, so that if they succeed in destroying their target, other guns can switch focus.


In your above example 1), the four Raiders should fire first, at their only viable target; if they are successful, the right hand Ravager should fire next, at the left Predator; if it is also entirely successful, the left Ravager in the top corner then has a clear shot at the Razorback!

I think the importance of fire ordering is very relevant to this article, as ensuring that every gun has at least a second target should be fundamental to how you position your guns, and that should heavily factor in your positional planning.

Edit: Haha! Thor's article was the one to which I was referring! Thor, can you post a link to it please, if you still have it?
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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: The Pragmatic Realspace Raider: Multiple Targets and Overlapping Fire   Mon Feb 02 2015, 22:27

@Thor665 wrote:
Reminds me a lot of my bubbles article - but I definitely agree, overlapping them (and also understanding firing order) is darn helpful.

You even gave an example against Blood Angels! Shocking! This plagiarism can't go unpunished! Razz

Bubbles are great but they do omit fire arc, line of sight and cover. These three elements, and how they need to be taken into account when positioning for the shooting phase was more the focus of my article. Not that range and fire order aren't important. Wink

@commandersasha wrote:
I think the importance of fire ordering is very relevant to this article, as ensuring that every gun has at least a second target should be fundamental to how you position your guns, and that should heavily factor in your positional planning.

Yes order is important, as your example illustrates. Another example of this, is in example 2, the ravager on the left should shoot first as it only has one target it can engage with all three dark lances.



@commandersasha wrote:
Edit: Haha! Thor's article was the one to which I was referring! Thor, can you post a link to it please, if you still have it?

Here's a link to Thor's old article.

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: The Pragmatic Realspace Raider: Multiple Targets and Overlapping Fire   Mon Feb 02 2015, 22:50

One small bit of advice to people, based on my own stupidity:

If you have weapons (like splinter cannons) that can't affect vehicles, make sure you use your other weapons to expose targets for those weapons. e.g. In a recent game, I used Blasters to destroy a Battle Wagon and expose a unit of Mega Nobz. I then laid into them with a Disintegrator-Ravager... and then realised that I should have shot said Ravager at a trukk instead. By shooting it at the mega nobz, I'd left one of my Venoms with no infantry targets to shoot at (there was cover between it and the Mega Nobz). Embarassed

I imagine most of you won't be quite this stupid, but I thought I'd mention it just in case.
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PostSubject: Re: The Pragmatic Realspace Raider: Multiple Targets and Overlapping Fire   Tue Feb 03 2015, 01:29

Nice write up
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PostSubject: Re: The Pragmatic Realspace Raider: Multiple Targets and Overlapping Fire   Tue Feb 03 2015, 07:50

@The Shredder wrote:
If you have weapons (like splinter cannons) that can't affect vehicles, make sure you use your other weapons to expose targets for those weapons. e.g. In a recent game, I used Blasters to destroy a Battle Wagon and expose a unit of Mega Nobz. I then laid into them with a Disintegrator-Ravager... and then realised that I should have shot said Ravager at a trukk instead. By shooting it at the mega nobz, I'd left one of my Venoms with no infantry targets to shoot at (there was cover between it and the Mega Nobz).  Embarassed

That's a very good point, and it's definitely a mistake I have made in the past. So you're not the only one! Very Happy

Something along similar lines that's worth remembering in 7th edition, is not to assume that destroying a transport vehicle will leave you with something to shoot. Dark Lances only make non open topped vehicles explode on a 6. This means with box vehicles like rhinos, razors, chimeras and land raiders it can often be easy for you opponent to hide the contents of the transport behind the wreckage and out of line of sight.

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PostSubject: Re: The Pragmatic Realspace Raider: Multiple Targets and Overlapping Fire   Tue Feb 03 2015, 11:52

Nice one Mushkilla, If I may...

For DE especially the shooting phase should be known as the shooting + running/flat-outing/turboing phase.

You usually want to take these extra shooting phase movements after you shoot in order to press the advantage of a successful turn of shooting or to redeploy/hide after a not so successful one.

eg. shoot at a unit holding an obj you want, if you push them off said obj or wipe them out you can then turbo a unit of reavers onto it or flat-out a vehicle that has no target to shoot at unto it.

Another point - shoot template/blasts at infantry before other shooting to maximise hits.Smile
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PostSubject: Re: The Pragmatic Realspace Raider: Multiple Targets and Overlapping Fire   Tue Feb 03 2015, 11:59

As a related point, I kicked off this discussion a while back that sort of feeds off the above tactica.

BTW Mush, I really like the bite sized nature of these guides - not too much to digest at a time, and the maps keep it nice and simple!

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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: The Pragmatic Realspace Raider: Multiple Targets and Overlapping Fire   Tue Feb 03 2015, 22:20

@Painjunky wrote:
For DE especially the shooting phase should be known as the shooting + running/flat-outing/turboing phase.

Another point - shoot template/blasts at infantry before other shooting to maximise hits.Smile

Good points, potential turbo-boost/flat out moves are important to take into account before you start shooting. The order weapons are resolved is also very important with blasts/templates (even within a single unit, now that they are resolved separately).

@The_Burning_Eye wrote:
I really like the bite sized nature of these guides - not too much to digest at a time, and the maps keep it nice and simple!

That's the idea, glad you like them. Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: The Pragmatic Realspace Raider: Multiple Targets and Overlapping Fire   Tue Feb 03 2015, 22:43

As a new 40k player, I like these tidbits. It gives me a good idea on how things are generally done. Smile
Is there any particular order that the shooting phase must take? Do flat-out/turbo's have to be done at the start or at the end?

Example map 2:
If it happens that the far left tank takes too many rav/raiders to blow it up and only leaves you with what's known as a "long shot" in destroying the second tank. Can you then turbo a raider (hopefully full of wyches, and armed with enhanced sails) up into the face of the unharmed tank.
I imagine this would block its line of sight to our heavy support and would be jinking 2/3 of the shots fired at it. If it wrecks, then the wyches can charge next turn.
Or do turbo's have to be done first?
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PostSubject: Re: The Pragmatic Realspace Raider: Multiple Targets and Overlapping Fire   Wed Feb 04 2015, 08:04

@nexs wrote:
Is there any particular order that the shooting phase must take? Do flat-out/turbo's have to be done at the start or at the end?

A unit can turbo-boost/flat out at anytime during your shooting phase. Normally I leave it to last, once I see how my shooting phase as gone, like you said.

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PostSubject: Re: The Pragmatic Realspace Raider: Multiple Targets and Overlapping Fire   Wed Feb 04 2015, 10:08

The shooting order should probably bee a wholly different post alltogether. There is no 1 right solution. Its a combination from situation analysis.

And flat outs/turbo run should be normally done last but there are situations where doing them before shooting has advanges too. (Blocking line of sight to kill a special weapon or reducing cover etc.)

Nice pics Mush Wink

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PostSubject: Re: The Pragmatic Realspace Raider: Multiple Targets and Overlapping Fire   Wed Feb 04 2015, 22:31

@Vasara wrote:
And flat outs/turbo run should be normally done last but there are situations where doing them before shooting has advanges too. (Blocking line of sight to kill a special weapon or reducing cover etc.)

Good points. Though I do find the blocking line of sight part harder to do with our vehicles as they have loads of holes and are on stands. Blocking line of sight sniping is a lot easier to do with rhinos and chimeras. Sad

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PostSubject: Re: The Pragmatic Realspace Raider: Multiple Targets and Overlapping Fire   Thu Feb 05 2015, 14:00

The whole series is pretty sweet. Thanks :-) they have been helpful across the board.
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PostSubject: Re: The Pragmatic Realspace Raider: Multiple Targets and Overlapping Fire   Sun Feb 08 2015, 01:04

@Myrvn wrote:
The whole series is pretty sweet. Thanks :-) they have been helpful across the board.

Good to hear! Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: The Pragmatic Realspace Raider: Multiple Targets and Overlapping Fire   Tue Feb 10 2015, 23:51

Cool guide Mushkilla. Could you maybe do a quick guide about the best ways to disembark from raiders/venoms either voluntarily or if the vehicle is destroyed? I feel like I mess that up all the time.
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PostSubject: Re: The Pragmatic Realspace Raider: Multiple Targets and Overlapping Fire   Wed Feb 11 2015, 22:35

@Wolfsark wrote:
Could you maybe do a quick guide about the best ways to disembark from raiders/venoms either voluntarily or if the vehicle is destroyed?  I feel like I mess that up all the time.

Sure. Very Happy

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