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 Mandrakes... on a Transport!

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Mandrakes... on a Transport!   Sat Jan 31 2015, 22:19

Now that we can buy transports as FA units, has anyone tried using Mandrakes embarked on a Raider or Venom?

Any merit to this, do you think? Or does it just defeat the purpose of taking mandrakes? Razz
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Myrvn
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PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes... on a Transport!   Sun Feb 01 2015, 02:01

I really like mandrakes, so I have tried it a few times in the old codex. Start with a Ham for the pain token, grab a spare transport, and away they went. Much simpler in the 7th codex.

Overall. They weren't awesome, but they were decent. Its a lot of AP4 short range shots. We have a mixed meta here and it does really well against Orks, guard, eldar, and other non marine types.
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SCP Yeeman
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PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes... on a Transport!   Sun Feb 01 2015, 04:16

What sucks is that the Mandrakes will all die when the transport explodes. Granted Warriors and such also die when the transport explodes, but you can usually get the 5+ save and possible FnP to lessen the blow. Mandrakes may get FnP depending on the turn, otherwise they simply die.

Its better to just infiltrate in a ruin and grab them their 2+ cover. Infiltrating will get them closer and is better protection than the vehicle.
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Rokuro
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PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes... on a Transport!   Sun Feb 01 2015, 09:17

@SCP Yeeman wrote:
What sucks is that the Mandrakes will all die when the transport explodes. Granted Warriors and such also die when the transport explodes, but you can usually get the 5+ save and possible FnP to lessen the blow. Mandrakes may get FnP depending on the turn, otherwise they simply die.

Its better to just infiltrate in a ruin and grab them their 2+ cover. Infiltrating will get them closer and is better protection than the vehicle.

This.

Mandrakes are safest when they are in cover, and vehicles don't provide that. Also, they suck worse than Wyches in close combat and their shooting is merely an annoyance compared to Warriors and Trueborn. You could use an empty transport to move a squad of Mandrakes to an objective, but that's about it.
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The_Hornet
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PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes... on a Transport!   Sun Feb 01 2015, 10:07

I would generally say It doesn't lean on their strengths particularly well, however it's your army and if within your fluff you have strike squads of mandrakes that get dedicated vehicles to their task then go for it.
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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes... on a Transport!   Sun Feb 01 2015, 11:01

Quote :
Also, they suck worse than Wyches in close combat and their shooting is merely an annoyance compared to Warriors and Trueborn.

They are rather more specialised, they wound T3 on 3+ in close combat, instead of Wyches 4+, which is a boon.  Their shooting weapon also have a lower AP, and also wounds on 3+ targets with T3, instaed of 4+ Kabalites. So at a glance they are geared towards light infantry T3 4+ or worse save. For point spent - they are better at it then Kabalites or Wyches.

They are also more survivable against overwatch from shooting of those units, way more survivable.
Many of such units arent fearless, so their innate Fear special  rule have a *small* chance to play. A little bonus, just as soul blaze. Power from pain makes them even better against their chosen target.

Hoewever they rely on enemy going to ground, if they wish to strike at initiative in combat.

I'd say Mandrakes are better then Wyches, cause they at least have a role to play.

I dont think mandrakes in transport is a particluary good idea, it kinda defeats their purpose, which is a distraction.

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes... on a Transport!   Sun Feb 01 2015, 11:40

Thanks for the replies, guys. Looks like I need to reconsider.

@The_Hornet wrote:
I would generally say It doesn't lean on their strengths particularly well, however it's your army and if within your fluff you have strike squads of mandrakes that get dedicated vehicles to their task then go for it.

Well, the idea was partially because I recently made a 'Mandrake Haemonculus'. The idea being a more sorcery-based Haemonculus.

Spoiler:
 

Anyway, I usually put him with Wracks, but I was recently wondering if a squad of Mandrakes would be more appropriate. Because it would only be a small squad, I was wondering if having them in cover would make them (and my warlord) too vulnerable (especially since I frequently see DKs and the like). So, I was instead considering if I should put them in Raider for most of the game. Thinking about it though, that wouldn't actually protect them. I guess I could reserve the Raider, but I could reserve them on foot too.

Hmm, I might not have adequately thought this through. Razz
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Rokuro
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PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes... on a Transport!   Sun Feb 01 2015, 18:35

@Azdrubael wrote:
Quote :
Also, they suck worse than Wyches in close combat and their shooting is merely an annoyance compared to Warriors and Trueborn.

They are rather more specialised, they wound T3 on 3+ in close combat, instead of Wyches 4+, which is a boon.  Their shooting weapon also have a lower AP, and also wounds on 3+ targets with T3, instaed of 4+ Kabalites. So at a glance they are geared towards light infantry T3 4+ or worse save. For point spent - they are better at it then Kabalites or Wyches.

What Mandrakes usually don't have is strength in numbers. Their maximum squad size is 10. And they are elite choices, so you can have 30 in a battleforged army at most - at the cost of leaving out Grotesques and Trueborn.
They also have to rely on FNP for defense once they are in close combat. That's a 5+ save that doesn't work against Strength 6 or higher, while the Wyches have a 4+ invul save.
All in all, they are not as good a choice as Wyches when it comes to close combat units. Still a better shooting unit than Shredderborn though. Razz
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Mandrakes... on a Transport!   Mon Feb 02 2015, 12:30

@Rokuro wrote:

What Mandrakes usually don't have is strength in numbers. Their maximum squad size is 10. And they are elite choices, so you can have 30 in a battleforged army at most - at the cost of leaving out Grotesques and Trueborn.
They also have to rely on FNP for defense once they are in close combat. That's a 5+ save that doesn't work against Strength 6 or higher, while the Wyches have a 4+ invul save.
All in all, they are not as good a choice as Wyches when it comes to close combat units. Still a better shooting unit than Shredderborn though. Razz

With regard to the Wych comparison, the Mandrakes can fire S4 AP4 shots before charging and then strike at S4, rather than S3.

I don't know how much more damage they'll deal, but it does mean they can potentially take less damage by leaving fewer enemies alive.

Though, having said that, I'm not sure if I still wouldn't trust them to do much.


Part of the reason I was considering Mandrakes at all was that I was looking for semi-melee units other than Wracks (to accompany my Haemonculus). Basically, I've been messing around with a more backfield Haemonculus - one who'll be sitting back and shooting for most of the game, rather than one who'll leap into battle with DA or Grotesques. But, I was looking at shooting units who can still do something reasonable melee. e.g. Wracks can plink away at units with an Ossefactor (and maybe a Hexrifle too), but also have 3 poison attacks each on the charge. Mandrakes have decent 18" shooting, but also have 3 S4/5 attacks each on the charge.
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