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 Voidraven and Razorwing, why do people love them?

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HERO
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PostSubject: Re: Voidraven and Razorwing, why do people love them?   Thu Feb 26 2015, 22:29

Quote :
Pg 108. Webway Portal:
If a model with a webway portal is in Reserve or Ongoing Reserve, then the model and any unit it has joined or is upon has the Deep Strike special rule. This model, and his unit, will not scatter if arriving from Deep Strike Reserve.

That's what mine says, but there's no reference portion in my digital copy.

I mean, even by reading this it's pretty clear to me what the design intent is.
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Bleaksoul Brethren
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PostSubject: Re: Voidraven and Razorwing, why do people love them?   Sun Mar 01 2015, 19:58

@HERO wrote:
I have no idea what you're talking about.  These sentences are atrocious.
Sorry I wrote that as I was heading into a midterm my apologies.
@HERO wrote:
Edit: After re-reading what you wrote, I want to re-iterate that the comparison here is between the Razorwing and the Voidraven, not whether or not they're competitive enough in LVO.  I thought I made that pretty clear when I said it was a travesty to bring up DE and LVO in the same sentence.  I don't think DE is good enough to compete in that arena, and if they did compete, they did so as waterboys and not as an viable army.

On the subject of what you said about the WWP, I think you're mad, because no one has brought this up in any event that I've heard of so far.  Unless some neckbeard really wants to twist the RAW, I don't think a FAQ is needed.
Both of the flyers are bad that's is what I'm trying to get at. I'm going to compete in tournaments with DE as primary not as "waterboys" and have done fairly well with them. Comparing them against each other is like comparing wytches on foot to hellions on foot. You are comparing 2 things that aren't great with each other and claiming that 1 is amazing.

@The_Burning_Eye wrote:
@Calyptra wrote:
In the back of the codex, the summary phrases the webway portal rules a little differently, and clearly states that it works on vehicles.

This.
Added to which, if the summary was written by the same person that wrote the rule, it gives a clear indication as to what was intended. If the summary was written by a different author, it gives a clear indication of the direction of any faq that may be forthcoming. As such, I don't see how anyone could argue it works differently to the summary (unless as mentioned previously, neckbeard!)
And yet I talked to 2 TO's in the past week and they all said the vehicle scatters. I am arguing that it does scatter and I have a stronger point to argue (until the FAQ clarifies) on as we continue to go in the vicious cycle of pg108 vs pg112.
@Calyptra wrote:
In the back of the codex, the summary phrases the webway portal rules a little differently, and clearly states that it works on vehicles.
Yes. Read pg 108 and it clearly states it doesn't work on vehicles.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Voidraven and Razorwing, why do people love them?   Sun Mar 01 2015, 20:05

@Bleaksoul Brethren wrote:

@Calyptra wrote:
In the back of the codex, the summary phrases the webway portal rules a little differently, and clearly states that it works on vehicles.
Yes. Read pg 108 and it clearly states it doesn't work on vehicles.

I'm not seeing it.
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Sigmaril
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PostSubject: Re: Voidraven and Razorwing, why do people love them?   Sun Mar 01 2015, 21:41

@Bleaksoul Brethren wrote:

And yet I talked to 2 TO's in the past week and they all said the vehicle scatters. I am arguing that it does scatter and I have a stronger point to argue (until the FAQ clarifies)  on as we continue to go in the vicious cycle of pg108 vs pg112.
@Calyptra wrote:
In the back of the codex, the summary phrases the webway portal rules a little differently, and clearly states that it works on vehicles.
Yes. Read pg 108 and it clearly states it doesn't work on vehicles.
Could you please keep this to the rules thread you already started? You're pretty much the only one believing you're right, so bringing it up as "set in stone-your way" in every thread you can squeeze it in is pretty annoying, and not really helping the original topic any.
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Bleaksoul Brethren
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PostSubject: Re: Voidraven and Razorwing, why do people love them?   Sun Mar 01 2015, 22:30

@Sigmaril wrote:
@Bleaksoul Brethren wrote:

And yet I talked to 2 TO's in the past week and they all said the vehicle scatters. I am arguing that it does scatter and I have a stronger point to argue (until the FAQ clarifies)  on as we continue to go in the vicious cycle of pg108 vs pg112.
@Calyptra wrote:
In the back of the codex, the summary phrases the webway portal rules a little differently, and clearly states that it works on vehicles.
Yes. Read pg 108 and it clearly states it doesn't work on vehicles.
Could you please keep this to the rules thread you already started? You're pretty much the only one believing you're right, so bringing it up as "set in stone-your way" in every thread you can squeeze it in is pretty annoying, and not really helping the original topic any.
I'm sorry I'm just answering where the conversation went and for including it into this thread. I don't squeeze it into every thread I can, if I did I would be adding it to every army list that is using webway portals.
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HERO
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PostSubject: Re: Voidraven and Razorwing, why do people love them?   Mon Mar 02 2015, 05:24

@Bleaksoul Brethren wrote:
@Sigmaril wrote:
@Bleaksoul Brethren wrote:

And yet I talked to 2 TO's in the past week and they all said the vehicle scatters. I am arguing that it does scatter and I have a stronger point to argue (until the FAQ clarifies)  on as we continue to go in the vicious cycle of pg108 vs pg112.
@Calyptra wrote:
In the back of the codex, the summary phrases the webway portal rules a little differently, and clearly states that it works on vehicles.
Yes. Read pg 108 and it clearly states it doesn't work on vehicles.
Could you please keep this to the rules thread you already started? You're pretty much the only one believing you're right, so bringing it up as "set in stone-your way" in every thread you can squeeze it in is pretty annoying, and not really helping the original topic any.
I'm sorry I'm just answering where the conversation went and for including it into this thread. I don't squeeze it into every thread I can, if I did I would be adding it to every army list that is using webway portals.

No... you're the one who brought it up mate. No one's event talking about the WWP..

@Bleaksoul Brethren wrote:
Okay so when I'm going to a tournament (Alamo GT for me) I want to beat those lists with Dark Eldar as my army I may be allying in some guys but I'm bringing the best of Dark Eldar the fighter is not a part of that. Also you may be using the Webway portal wrong (the portal doesnt allow vehicles to deepstrike without scattering there's a thread about it though I am sending an email about it to see if they will faq the answer).

So back on the subject of the Razorwing vs. Voidraven, for 140 points, you get 2 lances and 4 S6 large blasts. I think that's a very good price to pay. Is it the most competitive option in the book? No.. but that doesn't say much because I wouldn't say our book is anywhere close to competitive Razz
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jbwms713
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PostSubject: Re: Voidraven and Razorwing, why do people love them?   Mon Mar 02 2015, 14:00

Caveat, I skipped the first 5 pages, and came into a discussion about WWP's, sooo... there's that.

As to my personal opinions - not a huge fan of the Void Raven. It's just too many points for two shots, despite them being pretty potent. I know it's dangerous to compare apples and oranges, but the Vendetta is still, IMHO, one of the best flyers out there... high armor, more guns at a better effective BS, transport capacity, *and* can drop down to the table if need be... for... what, 15 more points? Shrug. Even without all that, I just think it's costed too high - not to mention the missiles...

The Razorwing though? I think it brings some good things to the table. Large blasts, for one. 4 of them, for another. The ability to unleash the payload of missiles the turn you come on is a huge improvement - it's a serious threat to any horde (which is something that we otherwise have some issue with), and can do some hard damage to "generic MEQ" (looking at a full-sized squad to calculate hits). Obviously less amazing vs, say, a single riptide.
I've been giving mine the Lance upgrade... 140 points generally nets me a dead unit on the turn it comes on, and then the lances can go hunting after the fact. It's a small enough threat (with being in the air) that it's not high on the list, but big enough (2 lances is 2 lances) to actually have an impact.
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Bleaksoul Brethren
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PostSubject: Re: Voidraven and Razorwing, why do people love them?   Sun Mar 08 2015, 05:44

@HERO wrote:
Why? Because like I said many many moons ago after our codex came out, we're going to be the Eldar's water bitch with the WWP.  Look at the LVO placement of Dark Eldar, pure DE players or even allies.  When it comes to DE, especially one as cutthroat as LVO where people take come the apoc idiot list with hive tyrants paired up with imp knights, DE is just sad.
Actually you started the WWP discussion.
List I went against this past weekend that has been in top 5 every tournament this year in my area (3-4 tournaments so far not including last year) is 3 knights (adamantium lance) a razorback, hunter, stalker, scouts in a speeder, and a storm talon. How will a flyer hurt it? Another list 3 wraith knights, 2 crimson hunters, 2 wave serpents, 2 farseers on bikes in the same squad (one with mantle) how will they help against that? A daemon prince army 5 princes or greater daemons with 2-3 min sized squads for dice. Are the flyers missles good for specific things (like a guard blob), yes. But they are not able to compare to another army's flyers.
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colinsherlow
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PostSubject: Re: Voidraven and Razorwing, why do people love them?   Sun Mar 08 2015, 11:55

The point doesn't have to be I beat all of your flyers in a duel. If I make flyer/fmcs jink then they have done their job just fine. The fact that one Razorwing can just delete an entire tac squad/blob in one round is great and worth that on it's own.
Having some kind of air presence is important

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HERO
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PostSubject: Re: Voidraven and Razorwing, why do people love them?   Sun Mar 08 2015, 15:18

Jesus, I didn't know that talking about DE bring Eldar wwp bitch and tournaments meant let's frak drop everything and talk about its ruling, which by now several people have told you you're wrong. Also, since the book came out, LVO, adepticon, broadside bash, bay area open, or any GTs have yet to rule in the manner you suggested. I'm pretty frak convinced at this point you're just a god dawn idiot. Stop bringing it up.
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Bleaksoul Brethren
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PostSubject: Re: Voidraven and Razorwing, why do people love them?   Mon Mar 09 2015, 06:02

@HERO wrote:
Jesus, I didn't know that talking about DE bring Eldar wwp bitch and tournaments meant let's frak drop everything and talk about its ruling, which by now several people have told you you're wrong. Also, since the book came out, LVO, adepticon, broadside bash, bay area open, or any GTs have yet to rule in the manner you suggested. I'm pretty frak convinced at this point you're just a god dawn idiot. Stop bringing it up.
I will since you ask oh so politely without being rude or a jerk. I always enjoy arguments that have intelligent thoughts and banter. Please message me the links to where they have posted their faq's / rulings on this. I can't seem to find the ruling either way in any of the tournament faq's that I find. This may be because I'm a god dawn idiot so any help from a hero would be greatly appreciated.
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PostSubject: Re: Voidraven and Razorwing, why do people love them?   Mon Mar 09 2015, 07:11

Seeing as this thread can't be kept on topic, it will be locked.

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