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Its_Rumble
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PostSubject: Thoughts on Raiders   Thu Jan 29 2015, 16:12

So when the skysplinter box got released I went ahead and picked up two of them, this would put me at 50 warriors and 4 raiders. However I am trying to decide if I really need them, they are still packaged so I can return them to my FLGS. In all of my recent games I haven't found myself needed them at all. I have 6 venoms and tend to use all of those instead. How many warriors and raiders do you guys have? I think I should return at least one of them.

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Mario Augusto
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on Raiders   Thu Jan 29 2015, 16:14

If you like to collect an entire army, don't do it! and i think they will probably get some use in the future^^
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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on Raiders   Thu Jan 29 2015, 16:20

I have two gunboats and a third raider for grotesques in my basic list. I also have been known to bring a pair of empty raider as backup transports for when the occupied ones get wrecked. It's a different style of play to taking lots of venoms, so would give you variety.

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Erebus
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on Raiders   Thu Jan 29 2015, 16:21

There is a simple solution: play bigger games so you have an excuse to use them.

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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on Raiders   Thu Jan 29 2015, 17:12

THink of Apocalypse.

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a1elbow
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on Raiders   Fri Jan 30 2015, 03:12

Do you need Ravagers? The side mounted lances are pretty easy to piece together. If you can get full credit, more power to you. But if not, I'd consider just saving them for the possibility of ravagers.

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Its_Rumble
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on Raiders   Fri Jan 30 2015, 03:29

Yea I am sure in the future I would still like to have them. some of those warriors I am going to turn into trueborn anyway. Hey I guess as a DE player you can never have enough transports.

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on Raiders   Fri Jan 30 2015, 11:47

I currently own 3 Raiders, and rarely need more unless I want to start using multiple Coven formations. Usually, I'll have one of the following combinations:
- Covenite Fleshcorps (3 Raiders with 5 Wracks each)
- Grotesquerie (2 Raiders with 4 Grotesques and a character each)
- 2-3 Gunboats

Usually, if I'm using Raiders its because I want to make use of the transport capacity - either to get a full squad or to attack a character to a small squad. However, since I prefer small, 5-man squads, I rarely find myself needing more Raiders at the moment. In contrast, I always use all the Venoms I own and would use more if I had them.
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@miral
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on Raiders   Fri Jan 30 2015, 21:31

I have three venoms, three raider and three magnetised ravager which I can use as raider. That is enough variety for 2000 pts if you usually play mixed lists. And unless you play horde lists (which should work) you do not need 50 warriors. I would return it if I were you Smile
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jbwms713
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on Raiders   Sat Jan 31 2015, 03:57

I haven't played much with DE lately... been on a Nid kick, and whatsuch...

Raiders, I think, open up some interesting options. Splinter Racks are a bit more sickening now, and while some people hate putting upgrades on our paper-thin transports (and I can certainly understand why), I've been wanting to try our newly built-in DS abilities to threaten rear armor with Dissies and put it to some enemy troops with the guys inside.

I've enjoyed having access to both transports, and for bigger games/Apoc it's always nice to have. I mean, I rarely pull more than maybe 30 warriors in a given game, but have at least twice that many ready to go if someone wants to pull something crazy out. It happens.
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django_unchained
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on Raiders   Tue Feb 17 2015, 20:36

Raiders w/ night shields should transport your assault units,

venoms should carry warriors.

Pretty much as simple as that.
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Tyrant Lord 73
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on Raiders   Wed Feb 18 2015, 00:05

I always use at least two raiders with splinter racks and night shields, with ten basic warriors at anything above 1k points, usually with another raider for my archon and whatever his retinue is. Being able to get a 3+ jink and still fire 10 or 20 poisoned shots at normal BS is awesome! I'm also planing to use raiders to transport my harlequins when the codex drops.
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Creeping Darkness
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on Raiders   Wed Feb 18 2015, 02:42

But can you be bothered painting them? So much surface area...

Other than that I quite like Raiders, and usually field three or four.

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django_unchained
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on Raiders   Wed Feb 18 2015, 03:04

It's called an airbrush.
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Its_Rumble
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on Raiders   Wed Feb 18 2015, 04:11

I'm just gonna keep em. I like them too.

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Bleaksoul Brethren
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on Raiders   Wed Feb 18 2015, 05:10

Raiders are great for if you want the guys inside to shoot. blaster born I toss in a raider in with a night shields for a 3+ jink while the guys inside ignore the jink. I also converted the raiders into reapers.
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D34m0nSp4wn
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on Raiders   Mon Feb 23 2015, 14:02

I currently own 7 of them, which tends to be a bit overkill. I regularly field 4 or 5 though. Usually 3 or 4 with splinter racks and 10 kabalites with splinter cannon, and often an additional one for my archon and whatever his retinue is that game.

4 with dissies and a full complement of warriors puts out a scary amount of anti infantry firepower that can be moved pretty quickly in range of anything. The dissies are a backup AT (not a very good one but their mobility can be used to easily put them in the side or rear of a vehicle) and do a good job of shooting up TEQ and MEQ.
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Caldria
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on Raiders   Mon Feb 23 2015, 16:32

Raider's are great for transporting units that matter. The venoms are bought for the venoms themselves, the unit of warriors in them is the tax you pay in order to get the venoms generally. But generally you're buying the unit for the venoms.

Whereas the raiders you're buying to support the unit inside of them - they are still our best assault unit transporter. 3 HP with the ability to jink for a 3+ with night shields and to flat out 24 with aethersails. You're not really wasting their firepower either with the constant jinking, because it's only ever one gun.

And as people have said they make the best close range gunboats, because they can jink for said 3+ cover and with their 3HPs they protect the unit inside as well as can be expected of our boats. The unit inside is also unaffected by the jinking and can fire at full ballistic skill (provided the boat only moved up to 6")

It is more of a close range shooting unit than the venoms though ofc. to make the best use of it you need to be in rapid fire range so the warriors have their maximum output of shots, then giving it splinter racks for twinlinked is fantastic as an anti infantry/MC platform. Giving their raider a disintegrator cannon also gives them a bit more anti infantry punch, or upgrading to a darklance gives the unit some anti tank capability with the ability to fire at a different target (although if the raider jinks it'll be snap firing)

I tend to use the raiders just for transporting assault units though, such as grotesques and on a few occasions incubi. That way I can keep them cheap, zoom them forward and unload - after that the raider is just a bonus as it's done it's job and if it survives I can just use it for a number of things such as extra shots or blocking LoS etc etc.

However, I've actually used the raider most recently for the archon + blaster with webway portal in a unit of blaster born. Strangely enough I've yet to lose even the raider, and the archon hasnt even needed to take a single save. But I do tend to use that combo with the DA formation to help split attention.

But I do like raiders, even though I use them less often than venoms - you can be sure I'll be using them with harlequins in the near future, however.
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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on Raiders   Mon Feb 23 2015, 16:52

I still don't understand why I see people taking the splinter cannon in gunboat raiders. Sure, it's extra shots, but you're not likely to be staying still, so only two extras at a reduced max range. It also drops the point efficiency of the unit disproportionately.

Just to explain that - for 15 points, assuming a) you have moved, which is highly likely and b) you're in the >12" but <18" you get an additional 3 shots in comparison to taking a splinter rifle. That equates to 1 additional wound, not taking into account armour saves. For 15 points! That's the cost of the splinter racks on the raider, which roughly equate to an extra 2 wounds in their optimum range band. I know which I'd rather have.

I never go to war without my raiders, I'd far rather have them than venoms, which i basically can't jink with and so lose them to light arms fire.

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Its_Rumble
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on Raiders   Mon Feb 23 2015, 18:16

Lol guys... guys... I am fully aware of what a raider does and how to use it. My question was an attempt to see how many raiders people generally bring in a regular match to see if I had extra and could return the box to pick up something else that I needed.

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on Raiders   Mon Feb 23 2015, 18:47

I own 3 and rarely find myself needing more.

The only army I can think of offhand (that I'd want to play, anyway) that would require more is one with Covenite Fleshcorps and Grotesquerie. Razz
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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on Raiders   Mon Feb 23 2015, 22:37

Its_Rumble wrote:
Lol guys... guys... I am fully aware of what a raider does and how to use it. My question was an attempt to see how many raiders people generally bring in a regular match to see if I had extra and could return the box to pick up something else that I needed.

2 Laughing

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spellcheck2001
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PostSubject: Re: Thoughts on Raiders   Tue Feb 24 2015, 07:40

I run at least 4 at the moment, and an on getting another to cover all eventualities. Ever thought of converting the spare insane to ravagers? They are quite east to magnetise, and this would help your units be multi functional Sad

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