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 No Force Org options allowable for Kill Team?

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Mahakala
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PostSubject: No Force Org options allowable for Kill Team?   Mon Jan 26 2015, 14:52

I was playing a Kill Team game with an Eldar friend and he brought a Warlock on a Jetbike.  Much like our Court, these sissies don't take up a Force Org slot.  So my question is, is this permissible?  

One may argue that the Kill Team Detachment rules specifically state 0-2 Troop, 0-1 Elite, and 0-1 FA and that since a Warlock or Medusae is neither of these, they may not be included.  However, one may also argue that since they have no designation that they are not conflicting with the Detachment Rules either.

Thoughts?  Anyone have a definitive ruling on this?

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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: No Force Org options allowable for Kill Team?   Mon Jan 26 2015, 15:03

There is one key fact.

Kill-Team only allows certain unit types, those being Elites, Troops and Fast Attack.
Although Warlocks (and the Court) do not take up a slot, they are still LISTED as HQ units. Their entry is still as HQ units, they just don't take up a choice on an Organization Chart.
The important poijt is that Warlocks and the Court DO have a designation as HQ units.


(This is how I've ruled it for a tournmant I'm running in April)
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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: No Force Org options allowable for Kill Team?   Mon Jan 26 2015, 15:10

Suspect Ninja'd by the Squidmaster!

Not definitive, but I'd say your first argument is the persuasive one - the detachment rules only let you take units from specific categories, and don't allow you to take any other choices. I'd be a little miffed if someone tried it against me since Warlocks are HQ units.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: No Force Org options allowable for Kill Team?   Mon Jan 26 2015, 15:30

I was initially going to agree with the above but, having looked at the relevant section of the rules, I'm now not so sure.

Quote :
Army List Entries That Do Not Use Force Organisation Slots
Occasionally a unit’s Army List Entry will state that the unit it describes does not take up a slot on a Force Organisation Chart. These units can be included in any Detachment, even if all the slots of the appropriate Battlefield Role are filled with other units or if the Detachment had no slot for their Battlefield Role, but they must still adhere to any restrictions detailed on the Detachment and its own Army List Entry.

On the basis of the bolded part I don't think you can exclude a Warlock from Kill Team games. The fly in that ointment however is that Warlock Councils are only available "For each Primary Detachment in your army". You have no primary detachment as you have no warlord.

Therefore you could not take a Warlock but not for the reasons we might have thought!

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Mahakala
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PostSubject: Re: No Force Org options allowable for Kill Team?   Mon Jan 26 2015, 18:36

@Count Adhemar wrote:
I was initially going to agree with the above but, having looked at the relevant section of the rules, I'm now not so sure.

Quote :
Army List Entries That Do Not Use Force Organisation Slots
Occasionally a unit’s Army List Entry will state that the unit it describes does not take up a slot on a Force Organisation Chart. These units can be included in any Detachment, even if all the slots of the appropriate Battlefield Role are filled with other units or if the Detachment had no slot for their Battlefield Role, but they must still adhere to any restrictions detailed on the Detachment and its own Army List Entry.

On the basis of the bolded part I don't think you can exclude a Warlock from Kill Team games. The fly in that ointment however is that Warlock Councils are only available "For each Primary Detachment in your army". You have no primary detachment as you have no warlord.

Therefore you could not take a Warlock but not for the reasons we might have thought!

Count, you are the bees-knees.  I think that this is explanation is the most solid.  Thanks.

As a side note, a small detail about the actual game.  I let fate decide and rolled a D6 - 1,2,3 he replace it, 4,5,6 he keeps it.  Per my dice rolling exploits, I rolled a 5.  Here's the kicker though... First turn he moved a bit and then tried to cast Conceal on his Hornet (side-side note: Hornets are NASTY in Kill Team!).  Not only did he fail to cast with all four dice (1,1,3,3) but, yuuuup, Periled as well.  When he rolled his 1 on the Perils Chart I actual felt bad for him.  When I said to him that it was a sign from the 40k Gods that Warlocks were probably illegal, I didn't realize that I should have been praising the Count and not some undetermined deity.  Good times

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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: No Force Org options allowable for Kill Team?   Mon Jan 26 2015, 18:45

@Count Adhemar wrote:
I was initially going to agree with the above but, having looked at the relevant section of the rules, I'm now not so sure.

Quote :
Army List Entries That Do Not Use Force Organisation Slots
Occasionally a unit’s Army List Entry will state that the unit it describes does not take up a slot on a Force Organisation Chart. These units can be included in any Detachment, even if all the slots of the appropriate Battlefield Role are filled with other units or if the Detachment had no slot for their Battlefield Role, but they must still adhere to any restrictions detailed on the Detachment and its own Army List Entry.

On the basis of the bolded part I don't think you can exclude a Warlock from Kill Team games. The fly in that ointment however is that Warlock Councils are only available "For each Primary Detachment in your army". You have no primary detachment as you have no warlord.

Therefore you could not take a Warlock but not for the reasons we might have thought!


Hmm.
That sir is a fair point, but I'm still inclined to think that this is a written vs. intented situation and lean the other way. I just don't think any HQ unit would really be balanced in Kill Team.
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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: No Force Org options allowable for Kill Team?   Mon Jan 26 2015, 18:49

If you want a great kill team experience (a lot more fun and balanced than GW kill team which hasn't been updated since 6th) I would use the The Heralds of Ruin Rules. They are just so much better in my experience, the Team Lists are awesome. Very Happy

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Mahakala
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PostSubject: Re: No Force Org options allowable for Kill Team?   Tue Jan 27 2015, 02:17

@Mushkilla wrote:
If you want a great kill team experience (a lot more fun and balanced than GW kill team which hasn't been updated since 6th) I would use the The Heralds of Ruin Rules. They are just so much better in my experience, the Team Lists are awesome. Very Happy

Yeah, I've read through those and the HoR stuff looks really fun. The one draw back I found was having to remember the different rule sets (charge distances, six inch run, half distance penalty move thru cover, etc). If I only played Kill Team, then it'd be one thing. But to go back and forth between that and regular 40k higher point games would be a pain. You don't find that to be a problem?

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PostSubject: Re: No Force Org options allowable for Kill Team?   Tue Jan 27 2015, 09:54

Ninja'ed by Mushkilla!
The Heralds ruleset is AWESOME! My gaming group has been using it a LOT this year, I have several Wyches who now have rending power weapons, S4, T4 and 2++ against Overwatch!

The play is SO cinematic, if you play D&D, you know how attached you get to your character? I feel that about my WHOLE SQUAD!

Honestly, regular Kill Team is just 40K in 40 minutes; the Heralds' version is a whole different skirmish game with bells on!
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