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 Ok so I have a wych cult army I'm torn on artifacts of cruelty for my succubus

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Emilytheflayer
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PostSubject: Ok so I have a wych cult army I'm torn on artifacts of cruelty for my succubus    Fri Jan 23 2015, 02:14

I am torn between glave and aggie w/ armor of misery or glave and parasites kiss
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nexs
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PostSubject: Re: Ok so I have a wych cult army I'm torn on artifacts of cruelty for my succubus    Fri Jan 23 2015, 02:48

If I had a succubus, I think i'd go with Glaive + pistol + armour of misery and put her in with a unit of 4 incubi so you can deep strike her in with the killsquad and clean up
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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Ok so I have a wych cult army I'm torn on artifacts of cruelty for my succubus    Fri Jan 23 2015, 05:08

To some degree I find myself asking 'what are you running her with?'

If, say, Grots, I'd go with (well, *I* would go with neither, but...) the Armor, unless the rest of the army had assault units that would really benefit from the PfP adjustment (read that as 'other assault units') The Armor also probably works better if you're running some Coven stuff, as it sort of combos there.

I'd go with the Kiss if I was running a little brace of assault units out of the core codex.

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Ok so I have a wych cult army I'm torn on artifacts of cruelty for my succubus    Fri Jan 23 2015, 13:07

Well, I certainly wouldn't put both a Glaive and an Agoniser on the same model (but then, I avoid putting Agonisers on any model...).

I'd suggest just giving her the Glaive and then building the rest of your list. When you're done, see how many points you have left to buy her extras with.

Personally, I'm a fan of the Parasite's Kiss as a very cheap way to add a bit of flavour to a model (though I normally give it to a Haemonculus). I wouldn't count on it to do much, but it's so cheap that I don't really care.

@nexs wrote:
If I had a succubus, I think i'd go with Glaive + pistol + armour of misery and put her in with a unit of 4 incubi so you can deep strike her in with the killsquad and clean up

Why deep strike? Neutral
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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Ok so I have a wych cult army I'm torn on artifacts of cruelty for my succubus    Fri Jan 23 2015, 17:17

I actually glossed over aggie *and* glaive and read it as aggie *or* glaive Very Happy

I'll second Shredder - don't do that.

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Razkien
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PostSubject: Re: Ok so I have a wych cult army I'm torn on artifacts of cruelty for my succubus    Sat Jan 24 2015, 05:55

I'm a big fan of the Glaive. Combined with furious charge later in the game, she can actually cut down a lot of guys.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Ok so I have a wych cult army I'm torn on artifacts of cruelty for my succubus    Sat Jan 24 2015, 11:30

@Razkien wrote:
I'm a big fan of the Glaive. Combined with furious charge later in the game, she can actually cut down a lot of guys.

IMO, our characters have a total of 2 worthwhile melee items. The Glaive is one of them.
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Wolfsark
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PostSubject: Re: Ok so I have a wych cult army I'm torn on artifacts of cruelty for my succubus    Wed Jan 28 2015, 23:07

@Emilytheflayer wrote:
I am torn between glave and aggie w/ armor of misery or glave and parasites kiss

Dual Wielding with the Archite Glaive is a waste of 5 points. It has the same stats as a power sword if you use it 1 handed and the power sword is 15 points.

If I took a succubus I would just take the Glaive as 2 handed with a splinter pistol and armor of misery.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Ok so I have a wych cult army I'm torn on artifacts of cruelty for my succubus    Wed Jan 28 2015, 23:11

@Wolfsark wrote:
@Emilytheflayer wrote:
I am torn between glave and aggie w/ armor of misery or glave and parasites kiss

Dual Wielding with the Archite Glaive is a waste of 5 points.  It has the same stats as a power sword if you use it 1 handed and the power sword is 15 points.  

If I took a succubus I would just take the Glaive as 2 handed with a splinter pistol and armor of misery.

I honestly don't see the difference. Either way you have the Glaive and a pistol. Why does one require you to dual-wield?
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nexs
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PostSubject: Re: Ok so I have a wych cult army I'm torn on artifacts of cruelty for my succubus    Wed Jan 28 2015, 23:14

She's the only character with AP2 CC weapon. She will go into combats to murder killy lords as my non warlord HQ because she will be public enemy number 1 and will receive allllllllll the attacks
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Ok so I have a wych cult army I'm torn on artifacts of cruelty for my succubus    Wed Jan 28 2015, 23:16

@nexs wrote:
She's the only character with AP2 CC weapon. She will go into combats to murder killy lords as my non warlord HQ because she will be public enemy number 1 and will receive allllllllll the attacks

Heh, yeah, I like her as a secondary HQ as well.
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Wolfsark
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PostSubject: Re: Ok so I have a wych cult army I'm torn on artifacts of cruelty for my succubus    Wed Jan 28 2015, 23:45

@The Shredder wrote:
I honestly don't see the difference. Either way you have the Glaive and a pistol. Why does one require you to dual-wield?

If you use the Glaive as a 2 handed weapon (for the +1 str and ap 2) then it gets the "Two-Handed" special rule which means you don't get any bonus attacks for having another CCW (or pistol).

If you use the Glaive as a 1 handed weapon in combination with another CCW (like the agoniser for example) then the stats become the same as a power sword (s user ap 3) but you would get a bonus attack for dual wielding.

If you are planning on having your succubus dual wield the glaive and an agoniser, you could save yourself 5 points by just giving her a power sword and an agoniser and you would get the same result.
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nexs
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PostSubject: Re: Ok so I have a wych cult army I'm torn on artifacts of cruelty for my succubus    Wed Jan 28 2015, 23:48

@Wolfsark wrote:
.

If you are planning on having your succubus dual wield the glaive and an agoniser, you could save yourself 5 points by just giving her a power sword and an agoniser and you would get the same result.
But if you're doing that, you might as well take an archon and save points. I see the succubus as nothing more than an opportunity to take an AP2 CC weapon
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Wolfsark
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PostSubject: Re: Ok so I have a wych cult army I'm torn on artifacts of cruelty for my succubus    Wed Jan 28 2015, 23:50

@nexs wrote:
But if you're doing that, you might as well take an archon and save points. I see the succubus as nothing more than an opportunity to take an AP2 CC weapon

Exactly. It gives further proof to my theory that this new Dark Eldar codex was written by somebody that does NOT play Warhammer 40k.
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nexs
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PostSubject: Re: Ok so I have a wych cult army I'm torn on artifacts of cruelty for my succubus    Wed Jan 28 2015, 23:57

I'm a fantasy guy learning the 40k game. I still have a hearty desire to have my warlord be amazing.... but I'm learning that in 40k... everything dies easily. It's very different to fantasy, but I like that it's not about killing enemy units, it's about taking tactical objectives, which really speaks to me personally.

Everything has to have a specific role, and with a succubus her glaive mixes perfectly with incubi and a -2 to enemy LD, which fits her(their) role perfectly.

I'm even considering converting an archon with the djin blade as a space marine murder machine (but that's getting off topic)
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Wolfsark
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PostSubject: Re: Ok so I have a wych cult army I'm torn on artifacts of cruelty for my succubus    Thu Jan 29 2015, 00:22

@nexs wrote:
Everything has to have a specific role, and with a succubus her glaive mixes perfectly with incubi and a -2 to enemy LD, which fits her(their) role perfectly.

I have problems with the current state of the Incubi. They have high initiative and great weapons but they are toughness 3 and have no access to assault grenades. If you strike at the same initiative, or initiative step 1 (if enemies are in cover) they will get frak up. They fit a niche role now as a "counter charge unit". Ideally you would wait for your opponent to move his assault units close enough to you (or charge one of your other units) then charge them while they are in the open. This is not what I want my Dark Eldar assault units to do. I want to be the aggressor and have them charge into unit mismatches and slay them quickly.

I believe grotesques are the best option for this. They dont have assault grenades either but they have the toughness and wounds to soak enough damage on the counter attack and they can take on pretty much everything in the game with their flesh gauntlets.
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nexs
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PostSubject: Re: Ok so I have a wych cult army I'm torn on artifacts of cruelty for my succubus    Thu Jan 29 2015, 00:28

That would probably explain why I see many lists with archon+3 grows.....
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nexs
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PostSubject: Re: Ok so I have a wych cult army I'm torn on artifacts of cruelty for my succubus    Thu Jan 29 2015, 00:28

Grots *
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Wolfsark
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PostSubject: Re: Ok so I have a wych cult army I'm torn on artifacts of cruelty for my succubus    Thu Jan 29 2015, 01:01

@nexs wrote:
That would probably explain why I see many lists with archon+3 grows.....

Most people are doing it this way: Combined arms detachment with Dark Eldar as the primary. Archon as the HQ choice for that detachment with whatever wargear you want. The allied detachment is The Grotesquerie formation from the Haemonculus Coven Supplement. Its 2 Grotesque units and 1 Haemonculus. You attach the Archon from the Dark Eldar detachment to one of the Grotesque units since they are battle brothers.
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nexs
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PostSubject: Re: Ok so I have a wych cult army I'm torn on artifacts of cruelty for my succubus    Thu Jan 29 2015, 01:09

Doing this would definitely reduce ranged effectiveness of the dark eldar wouldn't it?
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Wolfsark
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PostSubject: Re: Ok so I have a wych cult army I'm torn on artifacts of cruelty for my succubus    Thu Jan 29 2015, 02:04

The Grotesquerie certainly isn't cheap but at 1500+ points you will have plenty of room for ranged units.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Ok so I have a wych cult army I'm torn on artifacts of cruelty for my succubus    Thu Jan 29 2015, 10:13

@Wolfsark wrote:
@The Shredder wrote:
I honestly don't see the difference. Either way you have the Glaive and a pistol. Why does one require you to dual-wield?

If you use the Glaive as a 2 handed weapon (for the +1 str and ap 2) then it gets the "Two-Handed" special rule which means you don't get any bonus attacks for having another CCW (or pistol).

If you use the Glaive as a 1 handed weapon in combination with another CCW (like the agoniser for example) then the stats become the same as a power sword (s user ap 3) but you would get a bonus attack for dual wielding.

If you are planning on having your succubus dual wield the glaive and an agoniser, you could save yourself 5 points by just giving her a power sword and an agoniser and you would get the same result.

Ah, nevermind, just reread what you were responding to. I thought you were talking about using the Glavie with Parasite's Kiss. I only just realised you were looking at the Glaive/Agoniser part. My mistake.
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Grimcrimm
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PostSubject: Re: Ok so I have a wych cult army I'm torn on artifacts of cruelty for my succubus    Thu Jan 29 2015, 16:04

To me the Glaive fails because its secondary mode is useless just like the demiklaives, id pay more points for +2 strength twohanded ap2 / +1 strength ap3. At Strength 3 the succubus shouldn't be ever not attacking at ap2, even against guardsmen. If your not using the succubus as ap2 take the agonizer it helps her actually wound things.

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Ok so I have a wych cult army I'm torn on artifacts of cruelty for my succubus    Thu Jan 29 2015, 16:09

I don't know why they bothered giving the Glaive a secondary mode.
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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: Ok so I have a wych cult army I'm torn on artifacts of cruelty for my succubus    Thu Jan 29 2015, 16:15

I seem to recall someone crunched the numbers and with one exception (can't remember exactly what it was) the higher strength actually produces more wounds than the extra attacks anyway.

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