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 pro and contra from a casual player

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Zenotaph
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PostSubject: pro and contra from a casual player   Tue Jan 20 2015, 09:58

So, having played a few matches with 7th, I was thinking about what changes I liked best in our new codex.
Sure, some changes are obvious, some are, well, rather unimpressive. But besides being unimpressive
on the paper, they could do the difference. Agonizer, for example. Poison(4+) doesn't sound so cool at all,
but with a soul trap, it's way better, than being a power weapon, that wounds on 4+.

Alright, so much for the introduction, but what interests me, is, what changes do you like best.
And I want to know those, that changed your style of playing, in the most spectacular way.
Last, and please, don't see that as a way, of complaining about our new codex,
would you tell me, what it is, that you miss the most.

For me, the best change is, like mentioned above, the agonizer. Who needs a husk blade, anyway?
Paired with a soul trap, it becomes a hellish threat, after one, or two duels.

What changed my play style the most, is a combination of two changes. First, it is the PGL
and second the new rules for the WWP. I'm still tinkering with the possibilities,
but I changed my army list because of those two.

Hm, and my last question is, for me, the hardest one to answer. My first thought was Asdrubael Vect,
but, the more time I spent thinking of this, I came to another conclusion:
The thing, I miss most in our new codex, is the overall availability of venom blades.
The VB was almost a trademark of the DE, but now?
Is there a shortage of poison mixers in the dark city, all of a sudden? Where they too unfair?
I don't know the reason, but poisoned blades nearly went extinct...

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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: pro and contra from a casual player   Tue Jan 20 2015, 10:42

I'm going to limit myself to 1 for each of these.

Pro: Well it's 3-part really, Deep Strike on all our vehicles. This, when combined with splinter racks and the fact that deep strike was changed in 7th edition to only count as moving at combat speed, has meant that the first thing on my list when I'm writing one is a pair of gunboats, which will usually deep strike into play, unless the board is particularly heavy with terrain.

Con: The removal of the extra attack from Hellions. I love the models and have 15 sat at home awaiting a paint job, but they've moved to the bottom of the priority pile now.

What's missing?: Any form of ground based anti-air. Some kind of portal cannon would be great, if it allowed you to re-deploy the flyer to any point of the battlefield you like I'd even settle for it doing no damage to the flyer at all. Maybe a table a bit like the haywire chart, where 3-5 re-deploys the flyer, and a 6 causes a pen as the portal closes on it. Or hey, how about a quad gun style vehicle mounted AA made from haywire blasters...

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Zenotaph
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PostSubject: Re: pro and contra from a casual player   Tue Jan 20 2015, 13:28

Ground based AA? Hm, sort of a venom, without the passengers, but a cool AA-turret, would be more DE.
Skimmers are the ground based vehicles for us, I think. 2 twin-linked haywire blasters?

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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: pro and contra from a casual player   Tue Jan 20 2015, 13:43

Yeah, ground based as opposed to taking our own flyers.

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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: pro and contra from a casual player   Tue Jan 20 2015, 13:52

Pro: The one thing I like in the book is Mandrakes. Back in our first book, I used to love running them as a foil and generally strange unit. Now, maybe not so strange, but a foil they work again. I won't be going back to my days of fielding thirty of them, but one unit is a good thing I'm happy to include in my army list.
I'd also add in as additional extras Talos and Chronos in units, the Dark Artisan formation, and I must say I prefer the new Power From Pain.

What changed: In my style of play, I always used to prefer the head-on rush ad into combat. These days, maybe more because of 7th than our specific Codex, I do tend to rely a lot more on massed poisoned firepower, whether it be a load of Venoms with Warriors, or a good Raider or two kitted out with Warriors and Splinter Racks.
I do also tend to field flyers more often now as well.

Whats missing: What I miss from the past.....well there's a few things. I do miss Asdrubael, just for the kick of actually having a large beefy character to stand toe to toe with what most other armies have. A lot has to go into killing say, a Logan Grimnar, and I do miss not having our monstrous character who can step up and slap these about a bit. But at the same time, I also miss Decapitator. His last set of rules was awful yes, but I miss his ORIGINAL rules. He was good back then, and sorely missed. But ehse are both secondary.
My primary thing that I miss the most, is Bladevanes. PROPER Bladevanes, the kind that let you kick someone as you Turbo-Boosted over them. Thatw as a good and really useful manuever that I think I miss more in my playstyle than anything else. Time time I would field all my Reavers, Turbo about, get my opponent tangled up dealing with Reavers in his DZ, giving time for the Venoms to move up and unload the combat troops (or ay down their firepower).
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: pro and contra from a casual player   Tue Jan 20 2015, 14:03

Pros:
- New Scissorhands (Rending is useful)
- Coven book has some nice stuff for Haemonculi
- New Grotesques are pretty nice - especially when taken with the Coven book
- Scourges are now worth a damn
- New WWP is pretty nice
- I like the Parasite's Kiss and Helm

What I miss:
- Venom Blades. I loved being able to give my HQs a cheap useful weapon. It meant that, even if I was kitting them out more for shooting, they wouldn't be worthless in combat. Now I have to pay a minimum of 25pts to make my Archon even remotely good in combat.
- Huskblade (I'd like the option of AP2 on Archon)
- Agoniser being reasonably costed and AP2
- Haemonculi having access to unique stuff without a supplement
- Being able to take 3 mini-Haemonculi per HQ slot
- Hexrifles removing models from play (i.e. ignoring EW)
- Liquifier guns being well-costed and useful
- Our SCs
- Urien's Meld the Flesh
- Being able to take Wracks as troops
- Wracks having a point
- Wyches having a point (not a very fluffy one, but a point nonetheless)
- Hellions being even remotely usable
- Old Night Shields
- Darklight weapons being worth a damn (something the new book could have fixed, but didn't)
- The Djin Blade still exists. And is our only melee artefact. And isn't AP2. And somehow got 5pts more expensive. Compare this to any of the artefact weapons SWs get in their codex.
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Grimcrimm
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PostSubject: Re: pro and contra from a casual player   Tue Jan 20 2015, 15:46

Pros:
- 9 slyth
- 10 medusae
- lhameans being better wyches


Playstyle changes:
No Duke to make a gunboat more reliable, i dont take razorwings (they cant hit the broadside of a barn now)

Cons:
-Unique HQs arent worth a D@&^ in a fight (compare and contrast with other codexes)
-Im super miffed about no Lord of war, not vect Just none Further pushing our unique characters into worthless territory.

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: pro and contra from a casual player   Tue Jan 20 2015, 15:59

Grimcrimm wrote:

-Unique HQs arent worth a D@&^ in a fight (compare and contrast with other codexes)

What's even more depressing is that two of ours are just beatsticks - and so suck at their only role.

At least Urien has some support buffs to offer (not that this excuses his crap Warlord trait or the fact that he hits like a wet sock in combat).

Also, can I just say that our SCs have some of the worst artefacts I've ever seen.

Drazhar - a 2+ armour save. You mean that thing other armies just pay 15pts for as standard? Whoop.

Urien - The Casket of Bad Rules. So, we don't randomly determine strength and AP anymore - instead they're both 3. Because, nothing strikes more fear into enemies than S3 weapons. And, of course, it's still one use only (I guess in the age of Ion Accelerators and D-weapons, 2d6 S3 AP3 shots on a SC would just break the game). But, I guess if you frequently find yourself with a desperate need to kill 2 marines over the course of an entire game, this is the weapon for you.

/RANT
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PostSubject: Re: pro and contra from a casual player   Tue Jan 20 2015, 17:10

Hey guys! I see your point. I so share it, whenever I look at my selfmade Asdrubael Vect!
I wanted to claim another point: We all have to deal with it, so bear it. It's a fact.
I only want to know, what benefits you, what disturbs you and what distress you.
I just had hoped, we could renounce any complaints, since we should already gotten over it.

Squidmaster wrote:
Pro: The one thing I like in the book is Mandrakes. Back in our first book, I used to love running them as a foil and generally strange unit. Now, maybe not so strange, but a foil they work again. I won't be going back to my days of fielding thirty of them, but one unit is a good thing I'm happy to include in my army list.

I had an idea for some time now, that might work pretty well with mandrakes.
It's to adapt an Aegis defense line, with a quad AA-turret, in DE-Style.
I want small energyfields instead of bulky ceramiteplates, so our troops could get their cover there.
Could be made out of these cocktail-plastic-sticks... The turret can be build out of dark lances from the warriors.
You got a solid cover, should be great for mandrakes, considering their special rules, and an AA-turret.
When I remember correctly, it's S7, AP4.

Put a Mission objektive there, together with, let's say 10 mandrakes. Could be a real hurdle for any army.

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PostSubject: Re: pro and contra from a casual player   Tue Jan 20 2015, 20:29

Pros:

Cheaper Warriors
Cheaper Reavers
Cheaper Razorwings
4 weapons to Scourges
Super buff to Grots

Cons:
More expensive Ravager
Wyches
Hellions
Splashes of useless wargear across the book

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