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 Liquifiers. Are they worth 15pts?

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SaturdayNightWrist
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PostSubject: Re: Liquifiers. Are they worth 15pts?   Thu Jan 15 2015, 20:37

I think if you plan on taking the scalpel squadron its worth it.
You want all the firepower possible.
Otherwise probably not.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Liquifiers. Are they worth 15pts?   Thu Jan 15 2015, 20:48

Slaven wrote:
The only true advantage of a liquifier is that is can ignore cover, something nothing else really offers in the codex (sans a Void Mine, which acts as barrage and can ignore a signficant amount of cover when placed correctly). So if it excels at lower toughness, poor armor, cover-hungry models - what models are you scared of that make you want them in a list? They seem like a tool to scare other Dark Eldar more than to deal with Dark Eldar's foes.

The other factor is that infantry with cover don't really scare me.

What worries me is vehicles with cover.
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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Liquifiers. Are they worth 15pts?   Thu Jan 15 2015, 21:27

At the end of the day, though, the real question is 'do you need flamers in your army list?'
If the answer is yes (*and* you don't want to take Eldar allies Wink ) then the Liquifier IS worth it by dint of really being our only semi-functional option for that purpose.

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Liquifiers. Are they worth 15pts?   Thu Jan 15 2015, 22:18

Thor665 wrote:
At the end of the day, though, the real question is 'do you need flamers in your army list?'
If the answer is yes (*and* you don't want to take Eldar allies Wink ) then the Liquifier IS worth it by dint of really being our only semi-functional option for that purpose.

What about Medusae?
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PostSubject: Re: Liquifiers. Are they worth 15pts?   Thu Jan 15 2015, 22:32

I don't particularly find a need for a maxed unit of flamers at that cost, and the other selections leave me a bit cold as Lhameans and Ur-Ghuls are kinda 'meh/bad' and Sslyth are more like a poor man's Grot.

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Eldur
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PostSubject: Re: Liquifiers. Are they worth 15pts?   Thu Jan 15 2015, 22:57

Medusae are more efective and reliable. They are weaker but with some additional meat (urghuls ot sslyths) you wont suffer that much. With lhameans included, the court does everything that wracks can do, just a lot better: you can have majority T5, a 5+ save and/or FnP, templates, 2+ poison weapons, shard carbines and good leadership, all for 200-250 points (without transport). Or you can buy 3-4 medusae in a venom and call it a day.

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sweetbacon
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PostSubject: Re: Liquifiers. Are they worth 15pts?   Fri Jan 16 2015, 00:44

Yeah, if I need template weapons (which I usually don't), I'm taking Medusae everyday and twice on Sundays.
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Ispa
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PostSubject: Re: Liquifiers. Are they worth 15pts?   Fri Jan 16 2015, 03:38

sweetbacon wrote:
Yeah, if I need template weapons (which I usually don't), I'm taking Medusae everyday and twice on Sundays.  

Ugh...my club days ARE sunday's...that is a lot of medusae i will be needing

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PostSubject: Re: Liquifiers. Are they worth 15pts?   Fri Jan 16 2015, 06:40

The_Burning_Eye wrote:
when a marine gets a S4 AP5 weapon for 5 pts, i see a S3 AP? weapon for 15 and think No

When a marine gets a S5 AP4 weapon for 10 points, still No

If for some reason you need flamers in your army list, and your only choice is liquifier guns, then I dare say you're using the wrong army. I myself would search for a better tool, or a better tactic.

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Liquifiers. Are they worth 15pts?   Fri Jan 16 2015, 10:49

Eldur wrote:
Medusae are more efective and reliable. They are weaker but with some additional meat (urghuls ot sslyths) you wont suffer that much. With lhameans included, the court does everything that wracks can do, just a lot better: you can have majority T5, a 5+ save and/or FnP, templates, 2+ poison weapons, shard carbines and good leadership, all for 200-250 points (without transport). Or you can buy 3-4 medusae in a venom and call it a day.
If I wanted T5 and liquifiers I would take Grots, not the court.

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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: Liquifiers. Are they worth 15pts?   Fri Jan 16 2015, 11:12

Statistically speaking, one medusa placing a template over 5-6 marines is going to more than make back their investment, even if they die instantly to return fire. Granted, you've then got the cost of the vehicle and the transport to add to that, but they pay for themselves in other ways anyway (you only truly evaluate the cost of a transport into the worth of the passengers if it does nothing but transport, whereas a court transport can still shoot its own targets).

On that basis, if I want templates in a pure DE army, I take medusae. If I am willing to take allies, i use wraithguard with d-scythes.

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PostSubject: Re: Liquifiers. Are they worth 15pts?   Fri Jan 16 2015, 18:50

A Medusae is the same points as a Wrack with a liquifier.

I guess, at the end of the day, if the question is, 'do you need flamers that don't suck in your army list?' then you'd probably want Medusae.

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