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 Illic as an ally, just with some Rangers.

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Eldur
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PostSubject: Illic as an ally, just with some Rangers.   Wed Jan 14 2015, 19:30

Illic Nightspear: yep. Just a crazy idea and it works with many DE units. Allied detachment with him and some OS Rangers: you infiltrate him and your unit wherever you want (in cover and far from any template) regardless of enemy proximity and go to ground whenever shot at, unless you're already in a 4+ cover or just want to do something nasty the next turn. With Shrouded you can get a 2+ save easily. This unit will be a bee in the nose of the enemy, ready to sting. Hatred and PE against necrons also. Oh and DS Rangers with OS can be of help if you use Realspace Raiders detachment,

Use him with:
Wyches, Incubi, Beastmasters or Grotesques: just as a delivery tool for them, with the extra Shroud. Remember that until turn 2 there are no assaults for infiltrating units!
Scourges
Slyths: lots of shots, S5 T5 and cover saves with FnP. You can also infiltrate them with a Raider as per rules. Oh your enemy will be pissed shooting at them while the rest of your force advances with joy at him. Maybe a base to start an assault army?
Trueborns with 2xDL and 4xBlasters. The true kin snipers.
Medusae: alpha strike eyeburst!



What do you think????


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helvexis
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PostSubject: Re: Illic as an ally, just with some Rangers.   Wed Jan 14 2015, 20:51

try a big blob of warriors into a terrain piece overlooking an objective and just have them set up shop to put a load of shots into anything trying to come close
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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Illic as an ally, just with some Rangers.   Thu Jan 15 2015, 05:15

Be sure to discuss this tactic with your opponent or TO

There is a large issue with an IC with infiltrate conferring it to a unit already - let alone illic and his special version!

RAW you can't do it

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Cavalier
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PostSubject: Re: Illic as an ally, just with some Rangers.   Thu Jan 15 2015, 12:26

I've always wanted to use him for something like this. You could even have the Warriors, Wyches, whatever leave him on his own, and deepstrike the rangers into coherency.

As far as the LVO/BAO goes its legal. Reece and the guys answered it via podcast for me in 2013.

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PostSubject: Re: Illic as an ally, just with some Rangers.   Thu Jan 15 2015, 12:33

So before 7th ed then?

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Illic as an ally, just with some Rangers.   Thu Jan 15 2015, 12:52

@Massaen wrote:
So before 7th ed then?

It's in the current FAQ for the BAO

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PostSubject: Re: Illic as an ally, just with some Rangers.   Thu Jan 15 2015, 12:53

Fair enough. I disagree with the ruling myself. The WWP does it better in any case!

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PostSubject: Re: Illic as an ally, just with some Rangers.   Thu Jan 15 2015, 13:04

@Massaen wrote:
Fair enough. I disagree with the ruling myself.

I disagree in terms of RAW, which is pretty clear, but I lean towards GW not knowing their own game and never actually intending that to be the case so I don't really have a problem with it.

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Eldur
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PostSubject: Re: Illic as an ally, just with some Rangers.   Thu Jan 15 2015, 20:30

In 7th is clear that you can Infiltrate a unit by deploying them with an IC. Just look at IC and infiltration in the special rules section (they're even one next to another). The IC can be deployed as part of a unit and then any unit with at least one model with Infiltration deploys after the two armies are deployed, before the scout move. Same wording for outflank working with ICs, almost exactly.

The benefit compared to a WWP is that you're there in turn 1 and can charge turn 2.

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Slaven
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PostSubject: Re: Illic as an ally, just with some Rangers.   Thu Jan 15 2015, 20:46

I think it states that units don't confer Infiltrate, but ICs do. The "confusion" is the IC wording for how deploying them works, and people take "must be deployed within 2" of the unit" as they deploy separately yet alongside and "join" the unit when being placed on the table. Which is silly, and not how it works. It's only worded that way to prevent you from starting Illic with a Grotesque, and the Grotesque infiltrate near the enemy and Illic deploys out of formation behind LoS on your board edge - or whatever example works best for you.
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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Illic as an ally, just with some Rangers.   Fri Jan 16 2015, 00:14

That's not even close to how it works RAW and the issue revolves around WHEN you deploy models.

Essentially, the unit you want to infiltrate by adding the IC must already be either on the table or in reserve when it comes time to deploy the IC

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PostSubject: Re: Illic as an ally, just with some Rangers.   Fri Jan 16 2015, 01:53

@Massaen (with all my respect!)

I hope there's no problem citing the RB fragments...
GW wrote:
"IC can begin the game already with a unit, either by being deployed in unit coherency with it..." (Note that any model in a unit must be deployed in unit coherency, not that the IC  is considered part of a unit once it is deployed in coherency but instead it begins the game as part of the unit, deployed as another member)

"Special rules that are conferred [from the IC] to the unit only apply for as long the IC is within the unit"

"[Infiltration]: units that contain at least one model with this special rule are deployed last..."

RAW, if you want to negate it your only argument relies in the first sentence. RAI an even RAW, the sole existence of the third sentence is enough to explain the mechanics of an infiltrating IC conferring the rule to a unit during deployment.
About the WHEN:Infiltrating units is after both player deployments but still in deployment phase, before declaring any reserves.
More RAI and WHEN: if they already made a rule to specifically disallow non-infiltrating IC to join infiltrating units literally "during deployment", why is a problem the WHEN and why not mentioning the reverse case if its not allowed RAI (inf. IC into non-inf units)??

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PostSubject: Re: Illic as an ally, just with some Rangers.   Fri Jan 16 2015, 07:24

If you want to debate the Infiltrate issue (again) I suggest you move it to the rules forum and stop cluttering up this thread.

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PostSubject: Re: Illic as an ally, just with some Rangers.   Fri Jan 16 2015, 14:23

The infiltrate rule is pivotal to the discussion though Count. If the rule is played RAW it does not work and if you follow the BAO FAQ it does - thus the OP needs to discuss with their opponent prior.

Regardless - I have addressed the whole issue via PM to Eldur.

Carry on Cool

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