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 Is there a way to make Wyches work?

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Marrath
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PostSubject: Is there a way to make Wyches work?   Sat Jan 10 2015, 08:44

Wyches seem to be quite terribad in this codex so my question is:
Is there a way to make Wyches useful?
Some support from HQs or anything, because they look so darn hot.
How about Bloodbrides, are they FUBAR?
Anything that'd make both a bit less bad would be appreciated.
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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Is there a way to make Wyches work?   Sat Jan 10 2015, 09:42

Define 'work' I suppose?
In a competitive sense? No - they are badly designed.
In a loose fun sense? Yeah, you could probably manage to field them and overpower stuff, albeit with a lot of finangling to overcome their weaknesses. Basically, I'd say you could make Wyches work via going Unbound and fielding a whole pile of 1x Khymera Beastpacks - then always declare assault with them first - then send in the Wyches. You'll tarpit stuff and be able to grid down some things. Not brilliant but it 'works'.
I'd avoid Bloodbrides though, they are just flat out narf.

Or run them as 'counts as' Banshees? They'd still be bad, but nowhere near as bad.

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SaturdayNightWrist
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PostSubject: Re: Is there a way to make Wyches work?   Sat Jan 10 2015, 12:13

In raiders and teaming them up with reavers.
Getting a good combat drug can make all the difference.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Is there a way to make Wyches work?   Sat Jan 10 2015, 15:00

Friendly games, yes. Competitive games, no.
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Grimcrimm
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PostSubject: Re: Is there a way to make Wyches work?   Sat Jan 10 2015, 15:57

You roll +1 S, or +1 T and they COULD be useful and not terribly good but useful, at 4 toughness they can tarpit better at 4 strength they can reliably wound MEQ, +1 attack is nice but if you only wound 1/3 of the time it doesnt help too much. Otherwise (this hurts me to say) if you like models and conversions you could make some wicked sick banshees

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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: Is there a way to make Wyches work?   Sat Jan 10 2015, 16:25

Guess you have to play them to know that, public opinion is very clear now - Wyches are enemy of democracy.

If you would play them i advice half shooty list with lots of reavers and some unit to draw fire. Dark Artisan will fit perfectly, as it will improve FnP roll of any squad.Reavers and Wyches support each other really well, Reavers eat overwatch, Wyches strike at initiative to soften it up for reavers, if they assaulted through terrain.

Bloodbrides are even worse then wyches, i strongly advise not to take them. At least Wyches can score and deny in close combat. Maybe in venom with Siren, for the sake of Siren damage output.

It would also be good to take Haemunclus from Coven suplement to join Wyches. Combining 2 tables of PfP brings lot of benefits to Wyches, most important being Fearless from the start, and Zealot and Fear very soon.

To all the guys with argument "but at that cost you could..." i know guys, i know. Simply put they arent able by themselfes, you need something else to make them "ok". But maybe you could win and have some really fun battles with them. Who knows. Nobody trying them right now.

Ideally their place is locking depleted units in a combat at the end of the game, whilst trying to score/deny.

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Rokuro
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PostSubject: Re: Is there a way to make Wyches work?   Sat Jan 10 2015, 17:22

I think the easiest way to make not only Wyches, but all of our assault units work better is to pin their target beforehand. Assaulting units that have gone to ground in cover does not reduce your Initiative to 1, and they can't overwatch either!
Now, Dark Eldar lack pinning weapons (again, a huge design flaw), but our Craftworld cousins have plenty. Wink
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commandersasha
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PostSubject: Re: Is there a way to make Wyches work?   Sat Jan 10 2015, 18:43

I refuse to leave my Wyches at home, as they are gorgeous (Raging Heroes Blood Vestals), and the main reason I got into DE, heck even 40K.

I won't pretend they are anything great in utility, but they unlock a Venom for me, they hide behind a big LOS the whole game, they dart between 2 objective markers (I only play Maelstrom), they rack up points, and if my opponent is aiming to table me, they are a real distraction for him.

Until the Cult supplement is released (Pleeeeeezzzze GW, pleeeeevvvve!), that will have to do!
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Grimcrimm
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PostSubject: Re: Is there a way to make Wyches work?   Sat Jan 10 2015, 18:57

@commandersasha wrote:

Until the Cult supplement is released (Pleeeeeezzzze GW, pleeeeevvvve!), that will have to do!

Its sad to ask them to take my money but i want my wych cult stuff back
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Is there a way to make Wyches work?   Sat Jan 10 2015, 19:32

Amen to that, especially if it gives us rules for Baron, the Duke, or their analogues.
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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Is there a way to make Wyches work?   Sat Jan 10 2015, 20:33

@commandersasha wrote:
Until the Cult supplement is released (Pleeeeeezzzze GW, pleeeeevvvve!), that will have to do!
Outside of Space Marines and CSM has anyone received a second supplement? I've got a giant salt lick in regards to this hope, I'll admit.

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Marrath
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PostSubject: Re: Is there a way to make Wyches work?   Sat Jan 10 2015, 23:45

Thanks for the many replies!
I'm not planning to use CWE anytime soon, so no pinning or Banshees for mee.
I'll probably try combining them with Reavers and Hammy formations, keeping away from bloodbrides, and hoping for a good drug roll.

@Azdrubael wrote:

It would also be good to take Haemunclus from Coven suplement to join Wyches. Combining 2 tables of PfP brings lot of benefits to Wyches, most important being Fearless from the start, and Zealot and Fear very soon.
Oh wow.
Haven't thought about that, nice!
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commandersasha
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PostSubject: Re: Is there a way to make Wyches work?   Sun Jan 11 2015, 00:37

Tyranids had three supplements after the Codex.
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PostSubject: Re: Is there a way to make Wyches work?   Sun Jan 11 2015, 00:44

In 500 points games, they are awesome.
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Caldria
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PostSubject: Re: Is there a way to make Wyches work?   Sun Jan 11 2015, 01:37

@commandersasha wrote:
Tyranids had three supplements after the Codex.

Granted, the nid codex was pretty widely perceived as unplayable - and GW possibly actually realised that and brought out the supps which turned the nid dex around (and now pretty much every nid list uses the supplements)

While wyches are poo, our dex is very playable. So I don't think a cult supplement is on the agenda any time soon Sad

I would LOVE to be proven wrong though.
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Creeping Darkness
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PostSubject: Re: Is there a way to make Wyches work?   Sun Jan 11 2015, 03:00

An image appears, of a long line of wyches stretched out of the Commoragh Unemployment Services office, while the careers counselor says to a wych in his office,

"Have you considered a desk job?"

More seriously, I still enjoy using them, particularly if you can find something that hates agonisers (hello, wraith constructs) or is T3. It's your army, so if you want to use them, all ahead full and damn the torpedoes.
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PostSubject: Re: Is there a way to make Wyches work?   Sun Jan 11 2015, 03:45

@commandersasha wrote:
Tyranids had three supplements after the Codex.
All I can think of is Shield of Baal. Am I forgetting some books that badly or are you counting dataslates or something?

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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: Is there a way to make Wyches work?   Sun Jan 11 2015, 07:30

Leviathan, 3 books.

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PostSubject: Re: Is there a way to make Wyches work?   Sun Jan 11 2015, 15:35

Do you mean editions of Leviathan?
I feel like I'm becoming more confused here.

There is Codex: Tyranids.
There is Shield of Baal: Leviathan

That is two books - what is anyone claiming as the three supplements after the codex?

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PostSubject: Re: Is there a way to make Wyches work?   Sun Jan 11 2015, 17:09


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PostSubject: Re: Is there a way to make Wyches work?   Sun Jan 11 2015, 17:39

Okay, so we were not talking supplements, but were talking dataslates. Got it.

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PostSubject: Re: Is there a way to make Wyches work?   Sun Jan 11 2015, 18:50

Even at that, a dataslate to improve wyches *coughcoughSliscuscoughcough* would be more than welcome.
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PostSubject: Re: Is there a way to make Wyches work?   Sun Jan 11 2015, 19:00

Sorry, yes, I meant "supplements" not "Supplements"! The three dataslates were released a few weeks after the Codex; even if one believes that bad feedback about a codex would result in GW releasing them as patches, the turnaround time was far too short.

A calculated move to wring 3x£9 out of 'Nid players after they had bought the codex.

I was a Tyranid player until then; that move disgusted me so much that I stopped 40K for a year; I've been encouraged back in by a new group, most of whom use illegal downloads, with a largely non-GW proxy army.

I've bought the DE codex, but have printed the Coven book. Release a Wych book, and I may buy that, but only if it has more content than the Coven one.
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PostSubject: Re: Is there a way to make Wyches work?   Sun Jan 11 2015, 20:41

I just differentiate between them by calling them supplements and dataslates - though I will agree, by definition, a dataslate is a supplement it's just within the lingo of the game that supplement has an additional meaning.

I could believe we'll get a dataslate.
I rather doubt we'll get a supplement.

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PostSubject: Re: Is there a way to make Wyches work?   Sun Jan 11 2015, 21:22

I'd love for us to get some HQ dataslates. Bringing back Vect and the crew (warlord trait 2 is perfect for Vect's set trait and would put forth a good argument for paying his expensive cost most likely)

Also, as Jimsolo said, a sliscus dataslate could help give a bit of life to the cult units (though I very much doubt he'd be able to do enough to make the wyches playable)
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