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 What makes Dark Eldar win on the battlefield?

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Grub
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PostSubject: What makes Dark Eldar win on the battlefield?   Thu Jan 08 2015, 11:55

I have been thinking about what it is that makes us tick. Why do we win when we win why do we lose?
So here are my initial thoughts, please add to it!

1) Board control. Out mobility and cheap transports give us great control of boards and flexibility
2) No über weapons. Death by a thousand cuts. By not having all our eggs in one basket, opposition cant just remove the head I the snake, but rather reduce the efficiency of the whole army as one weapon.
3) Speed. We win in the movement phase.
4) Poisoned weapons. Because everything wounds anything on a 4, it robs tough armies or tough units of there advantage. Other players have to change how they use there armies and have to scrap there more powerful units
5) Multiple targets. We can flood the board with stuff that can pose a threat to anything, target priority is thrown largely out of the window because most of our units are/can be made versatile
6) Special Rules. The evolution of PfP through the game and the effects of combat drugs really does help us immensely. FnP really is good as it gives us an effective armour save on stuff that wouldn't normally get it and a bit of security for the tougher stuff.
7) Lots of dice. We can roll a lot of dice. More dice = more success

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PostSubject: Re: What makes Dark Eldar win on the battlefield?   Thu Jan 08 2015, 12:00

To me the Dark Eldar win by the speed at which they apply force. Like the Craftworld Eldar I believe they win or lose by how effectively they can demolish the most important chunk of the enemy army. The ability of the DE general to put his army into position apply as much force as possible to a single cluster of the enemy army... and then survive is what makes or breaks a Dark Eldar player... all in in my opinion of course. Thats why I love the new Codex so much is the huge infusion of Deep Striking really enhances this approach.

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PostSubject: Re: What makes Dark Eldar win on the battlefield?   Thu Jan 08 2015, 12:05

Absolutely, that's utilising the before mentioned list in order to win a game, and that is the best way to do it! I always liked one paragraph in the old dex that Phil Kelly wrote: "Remember, play unfair" and frankly that is the keystone to a dark eldar victory!

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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: What makes Dark Eldar win on the battlefield?   Thu Jan 08 2015, 13:04

At one time, I used to win with Dark Eldar simply because my opponents didn't know what units did what so didn't know what to target.

Now they're a bit more knowledgeable I think you're both right, what makes DE win is the ability to have the right weapon in the right place at the right time to break the part of the enemy army that's going to win them the game, whether that's overwhelming lance fire to break open transports early enough to make an assault army slog across the board, or drowing an infantry army in poison fire.

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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: What makes Dark Eldar win on the battlefield?   Thu Jan 08 2015, 13:08

Interestingly I rarely ever use the benefits from PfP.
I get Fnp 5+ when everything is still in its transports, every unit I use to assault with already start with it (Grots, Pain Engines). By the time Furious Charge hits, my melee units have either cleared the board of their designated targes, found a new combat or.. are dead. My shooty squads do not get any benefit from it.
When fearless hits the game is already pretty much over and as I mostly play modified maelstrom it is very rare that it is either a close game or fearless troops would change anything as you dont have to actually hold objectives.
I never ever had a single game that got into the "Rage phase" as every game ended before that.
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PostSubject: Re: What makes Dark Eldar win on the battlefield?   Thu Jan 08 2015, 13:11

Weighted dice. Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: What makes Dark Eldar win on the battlefield?   Thu Jan 08 2015, 13:25

@Klaivex - I'd say that if you're modifying the missions a rule is designed to work with then it's hardly surprising that you don't get all the benefits of the rule.

My very first game with the new codex went to 7 turns, and furious charge/rage helped a squad of kabalite warriors take down Belial of the Dark Angels (and my opponent's warlord) in combat.

Scourges can't board transports, so benefit quite significantly from FNP, Kabalite warriors on transports that get flamed get to use it.

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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: What makes Dark Eldar win on the battlefield?   Thu Jan 08 2015, 13:45

Quote :
@Klaivex - I'd say that if you're modifying the missions a rule is designed to work with then it's hardly surprising that you don't get all the benefits of the rule.

Could you please elaborate how
"You may instanly discard mission cards that are impossible to fulfill (e.g. destroy a fortification when none is present)" completely changes the benefits from PfP?
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PostSubject: Re: What makes Dark Eldar win on the battlefield?   Thu Jan 08 2015, 13:56

sorry, your original post made it sound like you were doing something rather more elaborate than that.

In which case I have to ask, how have you not managed to get a game into the rage turn?

Try playing some Eternal war missions - they are far less random/much closer and the benefits of power from pain come into play more.


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PostSubject: Re: What makes Dark Eldar win on the battlefield?   Thu Jan 08 2015, 13:57

@Cavalier wrote:
Thats why I love the new Codex so much is the huge infusion of Deep Striking really enhances this approach.
I approve this message.

In my playgroup, we are currently using a mix of Maelstrom / Eternal War scenario (based on ETC, with 18 obj cards). This system is very dynamic. The Maelstrom are more like bonus points, and the Eternal War mission is more rewarding in the end (3 pts each), but you cannot ignore one or another.

I came to the conclusion that focusing on Maelstrom entails the sacrifice of some units (or get some resilient enough units to survive), which will be exposed in the open most of the time.
Dark Eldar have enough speed and movement for taking Maelstrom points, but not enough resilience to survive until the end of the battle. MEq are far better for this (pods, power armor, etc..).
On the other hand, Dark Eldar are very good at stealing the last Eternal War objectives and score a lot of points in the end.

What make Dark Eldar win, in my opinion?
Surviving long enough to have sufficient opportunities to ensure final objective captures.
Target only what you can reliably kill. Do not waste shots for potential lucky hits (except with TL splinter racks, which may be the only exception) or potential glancing damage.

Deep Strike:
You win by negating your opponent the opportunity to target what he wants.
You decide what he will be able to target.
You decide where you strike.
The unknown parameter is "when you strike" --> com relay / autarch can help.
Then you steal the objectives turn 5-6.
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PostSubject: Re: What makes Dark Eldar win on the battlefield?   Thu Jan 08 2015, 14:03

I think being able to concentrate firepower is important.

Against less manoeuvrable enemies, we can often move to concentrate our firepower on a portion of his army - devastating it whilst reducing firepower from the rest of his army.

And, if our transports survive, we stand a very good chance of choosing what our melee units engage and when.

Finally, we often do well against death star units because our armies tend to consist of relatively cheap and plentiful units, which are highly mobile. Most death stars don't have the mobility to catch a sufficient quantity of us to make their points back.
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PostSubject: Re: What makes Dark Eldar win on the battlefield?   Thu Jan 08 2015, 14:30

Its effectively controlling the pace of the game. When you don't get that chance or you slip up that's when we suffer in my opinion

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PostSubject: Re: What makes Dark Eldar win on the battlefield?   Thu Jan 08 2015, 15:54

A poisoned beer, by the time they scream "i'l be right back" it is too late...

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PostSubject: Re: What makes Dark Eldar win on the battlefield?   Thu Jan 08 2015, 19:37

Quote :
In which case I have to ask, how have you not managed to get a game into the rage turn?

Try playing some Eternal war missions - they are far less random/much closer and the benefits of power from pain come into play more.

Even in Eternal war missions game only continues on a 3+
If you are known for rolling low, it just never happens Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: What makes Dark Eldar win on the battlefield?   Fri Jan 16 2015, 18:59

I've only played (1) eternal war mission since 7th came out. We've already played 10+ years of the good missions, and the 2 years we had the scouring & the relic was already more than enough. My community loves the maelstrom missions, however we're hit & miss regarding "discard & redraw impossible to achieve objectives" - Nobody's opposed to it, but I think I'm the only one who doesn't suggest it by default.
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PostSubject: Re: What makes Dark Eldar win on the battlefield?   Sat Jan 17 2015, 18:28

I'm with all the people who (in one way or another) have said, "we win in the movement phase".
Concentrating our force, avoiding the enemy's firepower, presenting him too many targets to know what to prioritise, stealing objectives (every turn in Maelstrom or endgame in Eternal War). All of this is set up (if not achieved) in the movement phase.
And a little bit in the pre-game, list-choosing phase.

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PostSubject: Re: What makes Dark Eldar win on the battlefield?   Sun Jan 18 2015, 03:04

While yes movement, mobility, pfp are all important parts of DE, for me what wins or loses the game is the most stable thing in the game, averages. Each venom will do 4 wounds, each ravager will do 1 glance or pen, each talos cronos will draw 84 s5 or less shots (or less high s low ap shots) before they are downed. It is the stability of knowing what should happen before it happens that makes DE win or lose (lose if we roll below average).
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PostSubject: Re: What makes Dark Eldar win on the battlefield?   Tue Jan 20 2015, 09:03

I think, what makes us DE win, is the potent mix of mobility and a great variety of firepower.
Last game, I said to me, splintercannon it is!! Probably the most effective AI-weapon in 40k...
Useful against all nonvehicle-units. And, in my opinion, we got some nice AV-weapons, too.
Ok, not the super-duper-badass-thingies, but pretty useful.
And there are some real neat gadgets, to equip our HQ's.

I admit, I miss some things from 6th, like onslaught special rule, AP2 for huskblade and flickerfields for all.
We also lack incredibly the AA-abilities, others could field, but we manage, I'd say.

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