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 Fallen Farseer - Sumoning Chaos Daemons

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Sweet_Suffering
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PostSubject: Fallen Farseer - Sumoning Chaos Daemons    Wed Dec 31 2014, 03:37

With DE as your main Detachment. Is it possible for an allied attachment HQ Eldar Farseer to Summon Chaos Daemons?

Could anyone be so kind as to take me threw the finer rules points of this somewhat complicated concept? Would The summoned daemons be able to function properly as allies as part of my army because I had summoned them or it is all illegal?

From a fluff perspective I kinda like the idea of a Fallen Farseer dabbling in the dark arts.
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Laughingcarp
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PostSubject: Re: Fallen Farseer - Sumoning Chaos Daemons    Wed Dec 31 2014, 08:26

Yep, all psykers (except Tyranids and Gray Knights) have access to Malefic Daemonology. It's written out in the main rulebook "Psyker Phase" section, but a quick summary in case you don't have access (and if you don't have the rulebook currently, nevermind the rest of the rules but summoning is complicated enough to warrant getting a copy to read and learn all on its own).
I'll try hit the important points that may not be immediately obvious in the main rulebook.

-All psykers that DO NOT HAVE the Daemon special rule perils on all rolls of doubles, not just 6s.
-The summoned units count as being on your team, but allies chart and all still applies so don't try hug them. They'll bite.
-Summoned units are NOT objective secured or anything like that.
-Summoned units DO count as units for purposes of Kill Points.
-Summoned units count as having arrived from reserves via Deep Strike (roll scatter, and no charging)
-If you summon a psyker, roll for their powers known immediately.
-Since you summon a unit AFTER the beginning of the psychic phase, summoned Psykers DO NOT generate warp charges for that current psychic phase. And they CANNOT cast conjuration powers on the turn they arrive.

It's best not to think of them as allies, but as summoned monsters. They're under your control but they aren't part of your army list detachments.

Hope this helps.

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Sigmaril
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PostSubject: Re: Fallen Farseer - Sumoning Chaos Daemons    Wed Dec 31 2014, 09:25

Remember to never use your last power dice. With your ghosthelm you can ignore the main danger of non-daemonic summoning by ignoring perils.
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Izathel
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PostSubject: Re: Fallen Farseer - Sumoning Chaos Daemons    Wed Dec 31 2014, 16:29

@Sigmaril wrote:
Remember to never use your last power dice. With your ghosthelm you can ignore the main danger of non-daemonic summoning by ignoring perils.

This isn't actually true. You can ignore a wound caused by Perils. You can still get sucked into the warp with a roll of a one on the perils chart. Also, I'd say it is unclear if you only have a single remaining warp charge and you roll the result that causes a wound and removes a warp charge if you can spend it before it is removed to counter the wound or if it is removed from your pool at the same time that the wound is caused and therefore unavailable to be spent.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Fallen Farseer - Sumoning Chaos Daemons    Wed Dec 31 2014, 23:23

I've been over this before, but RAW no. (RAI probably yes.)
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Laughingcarp
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PostSubject: Re: Fallen Farseer - Sumoning Chaos Daemons    Fri Jan 02 2015, 00:51

Jimsolo, you referring to Summoning in general or the perils thing?
I'd heard something about not being able to "deploy" CTA allies via summon within 12", but thought that was debunked?

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Fallen Farseer - Sumoning Chaos Daemons    Fri Jan 02 2015, 01:13

@Laughingcarp wrote:
Jimsolo, you referring to Summoning in general or the perils thing?
I'd heard something about not being able to "deploy" CTA allies via summon within 12", but thought that was debunked?

The only way I've heard to 'debunk' it is to assume the word deploy means one thing in the allies rules, and something totally different everywhere else it's used. The RAI seems clear, since they show battle reps of it being done in White Dwarf. But the RAW is still against it. (Of course, RAW Wyches that get shot out of a wrecked skimmer can assault in their opponent's assault phase, but nobody plays that either--not should they.)

I don't fight it anymore; I'm pretty much swimming against the tide on that one, so I'm willing to pack it in and go with the mob.
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Creeping Darkness
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PostSubject: Re: Fallen Farseer - Sumoning Chaos Daemons    Fri Jan 02 2015, 06:08

@Sigmaril wrote:
Remember to never use your last power dice. With your ghosthelm you can ignore the main danger of non-daemonic summoning by ignoring perils.

Combined with the Spirit Stone of Anaphylaxis it makes a Farseer one of the best daemon summoners around.

@Izathel wrote:
This isn't actually true. You can ignore a wound caused by Perils. You can still get sucked into the warp with a roll of a one on the perils chart. Also, I'd say it is unclear if you only have a single remaining warp charge and you roll the result that causes a wound and removes a warp charge if you can spend it before it is removed to counter the wound or if it is removed from your pool at the same time that the wound is caused and therefore unavailable to be spent.

I didn't realise that, thanks for the heads up. Of course this means that one can still benefit from the result that makes you awesome, which is handy, although I suppose the risk of losing a power is much greater.

Personally, though, I think a Farseer can usually get more mileage out of Sanctic than Malefic.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Fallen Farseer - Sumoning Chaos Daemons    Fri Jan 02 2015, 06:38

Do you think he could get even more mileage out of Divination/Runes. Or heck, with our Ld negs everywhere you look, Telepathy?
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Creeping Darkness
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PostSubject: Re: Fallen Farseer - Sumoning Chaos Daemons    Fri Jan 02 2015, 22:15

For sure, especially Div/Fate for Guide, Prescience, and one other. Rerolls everywhere - something our army generally lacks.

Sanctic is much more aggressive, so suits more aggressive army builds. Div/fate is impossible to wrong with. But I still think things like +2 S, + 1 to invulnerable saves, Cleansing Flame and Vortex are more useful than popping daemons out for the lulz.
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ShadowcatX
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PostSubject: Re: Fallen Farseer - Sumoning Chaos Daemons    Sat Jan 03 2015, 01:17

The eldar lack rerolls? Have you read the scatter laser?

A demon summoning farseer can bring in units to hold objectives and add more power dice while the rest of the army does its thing. Really, if you don't have a plan for your hq slot he's solid. Especially if you're running serpent spam.

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Creeping Darkness
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PostSubject: Re: Fallen Farseer - Sumoning Chaos Daemons    Sat Jan 03 2015, 04:10

Sorry @ShadowcatX, I meant Dark Eldar lack rerolls, which can be ameliorated by an allied Farseer.
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