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 Talos and Cronos.

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albions-angel
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PostSubject: Talos and Cronos.    Mon Dec 29 2014, 15:05

You may have seen me posting on here about my struggles and joys converting from the old 4th edition Spiky Dark Eldar to the sleek and rather powerful new guys.

One of my favourite units from the old game was the talos, ripping through tanks and troops alike, and with the ability to hit multiple squads (often sending them running which was hilarious to see it fire off a burst of 6 random shots, hit 3 squads and accidentally take out the squad leaders sending them into full retreat). It got so good none of my friends would let me field it so it used to sit, dripping with blood, glaring down at the battle field. Every time I would win, they would give me a spare head to stick on a spike somewhere. I have nids, marines, imperials, chaos, tau (both armoured and kroot), eldar, you name it. Lost a few too but no one else wanted heads Sad

Anyway, enough of that. The new Talos seems watered down, and I have no idea what the Cronos does. So what DO they do? When should I use them? They look awesome so I will probably get one of each (along with my useless voidraven) because it fits in with my army theme and looks awesome but wont ever field them. Still. Any advice?

Also, what on earth is a spirit probe (that you can take for a points cost of 25 but has no entry) and how does the Cronos confer a bonus to nearby troops (as per fluff)?
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Grimcrimm
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PostSubject: Re: Talos and Cronos.    Mon Dec 29 2014, 19:25

I am not qualified to speak for the talos ( i dont like it)
Now the chronos on the otherhand is your support unit when handed a spirit probe he gives all units in 6" radius of him +1 to FnP (up to 4+) So he gives us the ability to footslog large groups of troops (not saying you should its just an option) otherwise hes too slow to get to combat if the enemy stays on his side of the field. He has a str 3 ap3 flamer built in good but not great, and his other option is a STR 3 AP3 Large blast. not bad offensively just nothing to sneeze at for its price.

The best way ive found to field the chronos is the formation with the haemy and the talos so you can deepstrike in a talos (GREAT) and anything else coming in will have a plus one to FnP.

In assault the chronos isnt bad 3 attacks at ws 3 he wont win any medals for accuracy but its strength 5 AP2 so he might pop enemy vehicles for you.

Also the large blast doesnt replace his template and as an MC he can fire both.

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albions-angel
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PostSubject: Re: Talos and Cronos.    Mon Dec 29 2014, 19:28

Where is the spirit probe entry in the new codex? Or is it only in the companion Coven guide?
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Grimcrimm
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PostSubject: Re: Talos and Cronos.    Mon Dec 29 2014, 19:45

@albions-angel wrote:
Where is the spirit probe entry in the new codex? Or is it only in the companion Coven guide?
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Laughingcarp
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PostSubject: Re: Talos and Cronos.    Mon Dec 29 2014, 19:50

It is at the very end of the Arcane Wargear section, next to the Webway Portal.
If you've got the hardcover codex that's top left corner of page 108.

I've only been into DE since the last codex so I'm unfamiliar with the random shots of awesomeness you're talking about, but been using the Talos in 6th and 7th editions of 40K with great success. They're a serious anvil unit for the rest of our army. Somewhere on the forums here Mushkilla wrote up a sort of guide to the Talos unit talking about equipment options and how to use them, worth the read.
Think of them as epic area denial; nobody wants to get close as a Talos poses a threat to any model in the game aside from Balesword toting Nurgle Daemon Princes and similar.

Put them in the middle of the board and walk up. Splinter Cannon and Haywire allow it to reach out and touch someone while maintaining its presence, it'll clear enemy units off nearby objectives no trouble with CC, and then later in the game it can charge and shred the targets you've been waiting for once your opponent is forced to commit more models to the objectives you've cleared. At the worst, you're paying 120pts to keep your enemy out of one big section of the table.

Cronos however plays differently. I only run one if I've got a Talos or two in my list, or if I'm using the Coven formation Dark Artisan (which is brilliant, it's the Talos/Cronos/Haemy unit). But they're a serious force multiplier and can literally buff Talos to the point where in an average game your opponent should have to devote more firepower than he can afford to actually kill one. And don't sneeze at an AP3 flamer, S3 or not. Wicked for clearing objectives.
Sadly you can't take both the spirit probe and spirit vortex (large blast), it's one or the other. Probe usually wins IMHO.

Since I picked up the models I've run at least a Talos if not more, and often a Cronos as well, in my lists.
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albions-angel
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PostSubject: Re: Talos and Cronos.    Mon Dec 29 2014, 20:12

Ah there it is. I kept missing that. Yeah I have the hard back. What a silly place for it >.< Oh well. Found it now. Thanks. Might play them then, in a higher points build than my 1000 basic army.
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Grimcrimm
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PostSubject: Re: Talos and Cronos.    Mon Dec 29 2014, 20:15

Thanks for the input man im not a huge fan of the talos but i know its awesome i mght try it out and see if it works for me.

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Talos and Cronos.    Mon Dec 29 2014, 22:52

They moved it because it stopped being a weapon. I love both of the engines. The ability to field them in units of 1-3, or the specialized formations of the Covens, is really sweet. I generally use my Taloi to get their kaiju on and tear up enemy vehicles.
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Khalifeth Drakh
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PostSubject: Re: Talos and Cronos.    Tue Dec 30 2014, 03:01

@albions-angel wrote:
Ah there it is. I kept missing that. Yeah I have the hard back. What a silly place for it >.< Oh well. Found it now. Thanks. Might play them then, in a higher points build than my 1000 basic army.

Don't feel bad. I did the very same thing. I was certain they had left it out of the book until I found it right where Laughingcarp mentioned. Even then, I wasn't sure if I had been acting goofy or if it was a devious plot by GW...

Drakh.
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monushka
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PostSubject: Re: Talos and Cronos.    Tue Dec 30 2014, 03:40

I love em. I run one with haywire or splinter cannon and chain flails (which I feel is mandatory). I put him front middle of my deployment and let him run around doing his thing. People either focus fire it or ignore it. The one's that ignore it, pay for it. The ones that focus it, die to my kaboats and ravagers. I just got a second kit and plan on running that coven formation with the cronos and haemy for fun.
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Rokuro
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PostSubject: Re: Talos and Cronos.    Wed Dec 31 2014, 23:29

I can only speak codex rules here, as I don't have the Coven supplement yet, but Taloi are at their best close to the enemy. Make sure they have a way of reaching their target undamaged, and equip them depending on what you want them to kill.

Chain Flails are my favourite, followed by the Liquifier, as I tend to use my Talos against infantry. The Ichor Injector is better against other MCs.
The ranged weapons tend not to have much of an impact in my experience. About anything a Talos can do in the shooting phase, a squad of Scourges can do four times better. If the opponent has vehicles, I use the Heat Lance. If not, I keep the Splinter Cannon. The Stinger Pod is really little more than a dual Shredder, and the Haywire Blaster just doesn't have much damage potential in a single shot, especially not against non-vehicle targets.


I haven't used the Cronos much. On its own, it's a slightly weaker Talos with a Liquifier-equivalent, and you can upgrade it to a rather weak artillery creatures and a decent buffer. The Spirit Probe's effect is nice, but unless I'm playing defensively (which Dark Eldar aren't great at in general), the Cronos has trouble keeping up with the unites I want it to buff.
Overall, I just don't find it very useful.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Talos and Cronos.    Thu Jan 01 2015, 00:13

Last edition, I used to quite like having a Cronos with Spirit Vortex in my army. Especially with our general lack of blasts and templates, a S3 AP3 large blast and S4 AP3 flamer could be quite useful.

Now though, I don't really see the point. For a start, whichever option you pick, it's 25pts more expensive and its flamer has lost a point of strength (was it really considered OP before? I thought it was one of our weaker options). And, whilst it gained FNP, mine usually had that early on anyway (all it had to do was kill a single infantry model). Plus, it has also lost PfP - which is really aggravating because the Coven table would be really useful (and even FC would be nice against enemy vehicles/MCs).

Anyway, it just seems like it's pretty awful beyond the spirit probe. But, even then, I struggle to see the point. Every unit in my army (or their transports) moves at least twice as fast as the Cronos. How is it supposed to keep up with them? This is especially problematic because the units I'd most want FNP for - Grotesques, Incubi, Reavers and such - are all frontline units and so are likely to be the furthest away from the bonus. My other units... meh. Warriors aren't meant to be tanking wounds anyway, and if 5+ FNP can't save them then 4+ FNP probably won't either. For 125pts I'd rather just buy another warrior squad and transport.

I do like the cronos in the Dark Artisan formation though - WWP plus 2 models that will always benefit from the FNP makes it a lot better IMO.

Though, honestly, I don't see why we couldn't have mixed squads of Talos and Conos normally. They wouldn't be even remotely OP, and this is an edition where we have Dreadknights, Wraithknights, Riptides, Imperial Knights and Super Heavies.
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Khalifeth Drakh
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PostSubject: Re: Talos and Cronos.    Fri Jan 02 2015, 04:03

@Rokuro wrote:

I haven't used the Cronos much. On its own, it's a slightly weaker Talos with a Liquifier-equivalent, and you can upgrade it to a rather weak artillery creatures and a decent buffer. The Spirit Probe's effect is nice, but unless I'm playing defensively (which Dark Eldar aren't great at in general), the Cronos has trouble keeping up with the unites I want it to buff.
Overall, I just don't find it very useful.

I agree that it is very slow and can often be ignored by your opponent. But then, so is the Talos. However, like The Shredder stated, they become an entirely different beast when you look at them in the context of the Coven formation(s). Particularly Dark Artisan. Then it just gets nasty!

@The Shredder wrote:
Though, honestly, I don't see why we couldn't have mixed squads of Talos and Conos normally. They wouldn't be even remotely OP, and this is an edition where we have Dreadknights, Wraithknights, Riptides, Imperial Knights and Super Heavies.

Yeah. But you could really say that about a few things in the codex. Wyches, for example. I mean... scratch

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