Help a newb: 2000 pts vs Necron, GK, Daemons

Subject: Help a newb: 2000 pts vs Necron, GK, Daemons Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:04 pm

I have a few games lined up and this will be my first time playing DE.

I was going to go with the following lineup:

I am not sure if i should even attempt a hybrid Transport/WWP setup but anyway here it goes.

(352) Archon: Blaster, Ghostplate, Drugs, Soul-Trap, Djin Blade, shadow Field and Webway + (Squad) 2 Harlequin Troupe + Death Jester, Shadowseer, Troupe Master: 3x kiss and power weapon.
(115) 5 Kabalite Warriors + Venom: Shreder, Splinter Cannon and Night Shields
(200) 10 Kabalite Warriors + Raider: Blaster, Dark Lance and Night Shields
(145) 5 Wyches + Venom: Shardnet, Haywire, Splinter Cannon and Night Shields
(115) Ravager: Flickerfield
(115) Ravager: Flickerfield

Webway
(342) Lelith Hesperax + (Squad) 8 Bloodbrides + 1 Syren: 3 Hydra +phantasm GL
(120) Talos Pain engine: Ichor injector
(100) 4 Reaver Jetbikes: Heat Lance
(191) 3 Beastmaster + 10 Khymerae + 2 Razorwing: Venom Blade
(195) 10 Kabalite Trueborn : 7 Shardbarbine, 2 Splinter cannon, Haywire grenades

Dread Pirate Posts: 685 Join date: 2011-05-19

I am pressed for time so here is the short version.

In general a mixed hybrid WWP list is a bad idea.

Your HQs look very expensive but it may be the way you have them formatted.

I would take 3 ravagers personally.

It looks like you want your units to be ready to take all comers, like a marine list. DE don't play like marines.

Blasters and DL in the same unit are not very efficient.

More later when I have more time but it needs some reworking.

_________________
The Dread Pirate Garness

Buttercup: You're the Dread Pirate Roberts, admit it.
Man in Black: With pride. What can I do for you?
Buttercup: You can die slowly, cut into a thousand pieces.
Man in Black: Tsk, tsk. That's hardly complementary Highness. Why loose your venom on me?
Buttercup: You killed my love.
Man in Black: It's possible. I kill a lot of people.

Thanks for the tips, i dropped the Talos and added a Ravager, i also specialized my troops a little so no more Blaster/DL units

I know that WWP Hybrid usually does not work but i want to give it a try anyway see if i can make it work for me. The people i will be playing against have never seen one so that might give me an edge.

this is the new lineup

Elite: Grotesques (6#, 340 pts)
. . 1 Haemonculus, + Agoniser + Webway Portal + Shattershard
. . 4 Grotesques, + Liquifier Gun
. . . . 1 Raider, + Night Shields

Troops: Kabalite Warriors (6#, 120 pts)
. . 5 Kabalite Warriors,
. . . . 1 Venom,+ Splinter Cannon + Night Shields

Troops: Kabalite Warriors (6#, 120 pts)
. . 5 Kabalite Warriors,
. . . . 1 Venom,+ Splinter Cannon + Night Shields

Troops: Kabalite Warriors (11#, 170 pts)
. . 10 Kabalite Warriors, + Splinter Cannon x1
. . . . 1 Raider, + Night Shields

Fast Attack: Reavers (6#, 156 pts)
. . 6 Reavers, + Heat Lance x2

Heavy Support: Ravager (1#, 115 pts)
. . 1 Ravager, + Flickerfield

Heavy Support: Ravager (1#, 115 pts)
. . 1 Ravager, + Flickerfield

Heavy Support: Ravager (1#, 115 pts)
. . 1 Ravager, + Flickerfield

WWP

Elite: Hekatrix Bloodbrides (11#, 375 pts)
. . 1 Lelith Hesperax, 175 pts
. . 9 Hekatrix Bloodbrides, + Haywire Grenades+ Hydra Gauntlets x2
. . . . 1 Syren,+ Haywire Grenades + Phantasm Grenade Launcher + Hydra Gauntlets x1

Fast Attack: Beastmasters (15#, 191 pts)
. . 3 Beastmasters, + Venom Blade
. . . . 10 Khymerae,
. . . . 2 Razorwing Flocks,

Elite: Kabalite Trueborn (10#, 180 pts)
. . 10 Kabalite Trueborn, + Shardcarbine x8 + Splinter Cannon x2

Modded - edited to remove individual points cost. Please familiarize yourself with our rules and obey them.
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Dread Pirate Posts: 685 Join date: 2011-05-19

nalfen wrote:

I have a few games lined up and this will be my first time playing DE.

I was going to go with the following lineup:

I am not sure if i should even attempt a hybrid Transport/WWP setup but anyway here it goes.

In general you go one way or the other. Mixing is extremely difficult and makes it much easier for your opponent to take your army apart one unit at a time. Additionally, 1 WWP portal is not enough. A smart opponent will surround it and make you come in from your table edge. You should have 2 portals.

(352) Archon: Blaster, Ghostplate, Drugs, Soul-Trap, Djin Blade, shadow Field and Webway
I'm not an Archon expert, but I prefer cheap HQs. All that aside, I would drop the blaster. Your Archon is already a close combat monster so my thoughts are that is where you should focus. You don't really want him shooting since he is safest in hand to hand. Also, the WWP on him really limits him. More than likely your opponents will move up and rapid fire this unit to death, even with the harlies.

A better choice for a WWP is a naked Haemii with a 3 man wrack unit in a venom. Drop the portal and then expect them to die from the return fire. Anything they do after that is pure bonus. Use 2 of these and get your portal as far forward as you can.

+ (Squad) 2 Harlequin Troupe + Death Jester, Shadowseer, Troupe Master: 3x kiss and power weapon.

Not sure the Death jester really get you anything. Your army is loaded full of poison so its not like you are gong to be short on anti infantry.

Now comes the question, are you going to go mech or WWP?

(115) 5 Kabalite Warriors + Venom: Shreder, Splinter Cannon and Night Shields

Blasters are your friend. I'd leave off the shredder. I take them as an afterthought if I am running short of points.

(200) 10 Kabalite Warriors + Raider: Blaster, Dark Lance and Night Shields
Warriors in a raider won't be shooting the dark lance. This is one of those thngs you have to work out how you intend to use them. If you really want the lance, the drop the blaster and park this unit somewhere to snipe away. However, this is an expensive way to get a a lance and you wind up not using the rest of the unit and you are no longer mobile. My suggestion is to drop the lance, reduce the unit to 5 and then get a 2nd unit of 5 warriors in a raider with a lance. You still have the lance, 2 actually, mobility and some protection for your warriors.

(145) 5 Wyches + Venom: Shardnet, Haywire, Splinter Cannon and Night Shields
A hekatrix with an agonzier cannot be underestimated. A power weapon that always wounds on a 4+. I'd drop the wych weapon. I'm not a fan of any of them and only add them once I have a full 10 man unit.

(115) Ravager: Flickerfield
(115) Ravager: Flickerfield

Webway
(342) Lelith Hesperax + (Squad) 8 Bloodbrides + 1 Syren: 3 Hydra +phantasm GL

Lelith and anythng she runs with will be a lot of points in one unit. and they die like flies to shooting of any kind. I recommend a Succubus with an agonzier and haywire grenades to run with the bloodbrides. Take the syren with an agonzier and you have a lot of 4+ wounding power weapon hits. I think they hydra gauntlets here are actually OK, because you already have so many attacks, these just add to them.

(120) Talos Pain engine: Ichor injector
Good for a WWP, bad for mech. if you go WWP, probably want to add a 2nd or a third. if not, the drop this and get a 3rd Ravager.

(100) 4 Reaver Jetbikes: Heat Lance

4 reavers doesn't get you anything. 2 units of 3 are actually a better choice, since it limits the amount of shooting a single unit has to take.

(191) 3 Beastmaster + 10 Khymerae + 2 Razorwing: Venom Blade

I would fins a way to get 2 more flocks in there. The rending is something you should capitalize on.

(195) 10 Kabalite Trueborn : 7 Shardbarbine, 2 Splinter cannon, Haywire grenades

This looks like a gun boat. The splinter cannons are expensive for one additional shot compared to the carbine. I now it gets 6 shots when the unit did'nt move, but DE are a highly mobile army. If you want to go this way, take all carbines and mount them in a raider.

The more standard way of using trueborn is to take 3 or 4 with blasters and zip around blasting armor and termintors. its works everytime all the time. Some archons hate it and refuse to use "Blaster born", but it works, cookie cutter or not. Trueborn are the DE equivalent of Long Fangs or devatators.

_________________
The Dread Pirate Garness

Buttercup: You're the Dread Pirate Roberts, admit it.
Man in Black: With pride. What can I do for you?
Buttercup: You can die slowly, cut into a thousand pieces.
Man in Black: Tsk, tsk. That's hardly complementary Highness. Why loose your venom on me?
Buttercup: You killed my love.
Man in Black: It's possible. I kill a lot of people.

Ok i dropped the WWP idea and went for the typical raider rush. I tried to use some of the tips you posted. Any specific advice vs Necron, GK and Daemons?

HQ+Elite

Elite: Hekatrix Bloodbrides (11#, 355 pts)
. . 1 Succubus, + Agoniser + Haywire Grenades
. . 8 Hekatrix Bloodbrides, + Haywire Grenades + Hydra Gauntlets x2
. . . . 1 Syren, + Haywire Grenades + Phantasm Grenade Launcher + Agoniser
. . . . 1 Raider, + Night Shields

Elite: Kabalite Trueborn (5#, 120 pts)
. . 5 Kabalite Trueborn, + Blaster x4

Elite: Kabalite Trueborn (5#, 120 pts)
. . 5 Kabalite Trueborn, + Blaster x4

TROOPS

Troops: Wyches (6#, 165 pts)
. . 4 Wyches, + Haywire Grenades
. . . . 1 Hekatrix, + Haywire Grenades + Agoniser
. . . . 1 Venom, + Splinter Cannon + Night Shields

Troops: Wyches (6#, 165 pts)
. . 4 Wyches, + Haywire Grenades
. . . . 1 Hekatrix, + Haywire Grenades + Agoniser
. . . . 1 Venom, + Splinter Cannon + Night Shields

Troops: Kabalite Warriors (11#, 170 pts)
. . 10 Kabalite Warriors, + Splinter Cannon x1
. . . . 1 Raider, + Night Shields

Troops: Kabalite Warriors (6#, 135 pts)
. . 5 Kabalite Warriors, + Blaster x1
. . . . 1 Venom, + Splinter Cannon+ Night Shields

Troops: Kabalite Warriors (6#, 135 pts)
. . 5 Kabalite Warriors,+ Blaster x1
. . . . 1 Venom, + Splinter Cannon + Night Shields

HEAVY

Heavy Support: Ravager (1#, 115 pts)
. . 1 Ravager, + Flickerfield

Heavy Support: Ravager (1#, 115 pts)
. . 1 Ravager, + Flickerfield

Heavy Support: Ravager (1#, 115 pts)
. . 1 Ravager, + Flickerfield

FAST

Fast Attack: Scourges (5#, 140 pts)
. . 5 Scourges, + Dark Lance x2

Fast Attack: Reavers (3#, 78 pts)
. . 3 Reavers, + Heat Lance x1

Fast Attack: Reavers (3#, 78 pts)
. . 3 Reavers, + Heat Lance x1

Modded - edited to remove individual points cost. Please familiarize yourself with our rules and obey them.
http://www.thedarkcity.net/t5-please-read-and-obey

Elites: I prefer razorflails on Bloodbrides, because to me they help against Marines, but if you want do the hydra guantlets, get a 3rd.

Drop that 5th TB, 12 points is alot for a abrasive wound, and put them in a transport for extra survivability and mobility, I prefer venoms with an extra cannon

Troops: 7 is the magic number for wyches imho, 5 just seem to get blown off the map too quickly, but try it out for yourself, you may find something differently. Remember to dual assault things though, or else your combats are going to end bloody...

Warriors are fine

Id drop the NS and use those points elsewhere, they are good, but your TB need transports

HS: Fine

FA: Scourges dont like DL, they are made to be mobile, go with HL or Haywire Blasters, I prefer the latter

Reavers are fine, but your going to find 1 HL takes luck, you might want to think to put the two squads together into one.

As for Tactics, Daemons and Necrons are pretty straight forward, although remember that if Necrons bring a mono, your AT is useless except for Haywire tech. Just kill the actual Necrons and they phase out, Daemons are just blow whatever DS, and remember to move your vehicles every turn, even if its only an inch.

GK are abit tougher, but we are one of the better armies equiped to take them out. Remember they are best at 24' range, so either outrange them or get close and get them in combat. They have marine stats and die just as quickly as marines. Watch out for psyflemen dreads, and remember stuns and shakes dont mean anything to them.

Dread Pirate Posts: 685 Join date: 2011-05-19

[quote="nalfen"]Ok i dropped the WWP idea and went for the typical raider rush. I tried to use some of the tips you posted. Any specific advice vs Necron, GK and Daemons?

HQ+Elite

Elite: Hekatrix Bloodbrides (11#, 355 pts)
. . 1 Succubus, + Agoniser + Haywire Grenades
. . 8 Hekatrix Bloodbrides, + Haywire Grenades + Hydra Gauntlets x2
. . . . 1 Syren, + Haywire Grenades + Phantasm Grenade Launcher + Agoniser
. . . . 1 Raider, + Night Shields

OK I Like this. You can save points by dropping the PGL. They already come with assault grenades and not much is going to want to charge into them. It will save you 20 points.

Elite: Kabalite Trueborn (5#, 120 pts)
. . 5 Kabalite Trueborn, + Blaster x4

Elite: Kabalite Trueborn (5#, 120 pts)
. . 5 Kabalite Trueborn, + Blaster x4

I would drop down to 4 Trueborn. You don't need 5 and the extra guy won't do anything. its just wasted points. I would also recommend transports.

TROOPS

Troops: Wyches (6#, 165 pts)
. . 4 Wyches, + Haywire Grenades
. . . . 1 Hekatrix, + Haywire Grenades + Agoniser
. . . . 1 Venom, + Splinter Cannon + Night Shields

Troops: Wyches (6#, 165 pts)
. . 4 Wyches, + Haywire Grenades
. . . . 1 Hekatrix, + Haywire Grenades + Agoniser
. . . . 1 Venom, + Splinter Cannon + Night Shields

Troops: Kabalite Warriors (11#, 170 pts)
. . 10 Kabalite Warriors, + Splinter Cannon x1
. . . . 1 Raider, + Night Shields

Troops: Kabalite Warriors (6#, 135 pts)
. . 5 Kabalite Warriors, + Blaster x1
. . . . 1 Venom, + Splinter Cannon+ Night Shields

Troops: Kabalite Warriors (6#, 135 pts)
. . 5 Kabalite Warriors,+ Blaster x1
. . . . 1 Venom, + Splinter Cannon + Night Shields

These are all good. They wych units are a little small, but all this means is you will have to soften up whatever you assault or group assault. Keep this in mind. Most DE players believe the optimal number is anywhere between 6 and 8 wyches. If you do go small units, assaults will be have to be carefully evaluated whether one or more units can do the job.

HEAVY

Heavy Support: Ravager (1#, 115 pts)
. . 1 Ravager, + Flickerfield

Heavy Support: Ravager (1#, 115 pts)
. . 1 Ravager, + Flickerfield

Heavy Support: Ravager (1#, 115 pts)
. . 1 Ravager, + Flickerfield

Pure win.

FAST

Fast Attack: Scourges (5#, 140 pts)
. . 5 Scourges, + Dark Lance x2

NO. BOO HISS! Scourges are extremely mobile, Dark Lances are not. I like Haywire blasters personally. Won't kill much, but it will annoy your opponents to no end when they keep getting their armor stunned. Very good suppression unit. Blaster work as well

Fast Attack: Reavers (3#, 78 pts)
. . 3 Reavers, + Heat Lance x1

Fast Attack: Reavers (3#, 78 pts)
. . 3 Reavers, + Heat Lance x1

Yup. These work.

One thing to consider is the number of AT weapon platforms you have. I count 10 dedicated weapon platforms. A weapon platform, if you don't know, is a unit that can fire AT weapons, not the number of AT weapons. I count 10 weapon platforms, which is alright. In my list I ran 13.

Also, don't focus to much on your wychs killing infantry, they are good at tying it up and winning the battle by attrition. My wyches and bloodbrides primary function is to take out armor. All those haywire grenades are just vicious against slow moving or vehicles that have not moved. Once the armor threat is dealt with, then you can go headhunting or tying up infantry.

The best tactic I like to use for my wyches is to assault a vehicle and block all escape points, so if the vehicle gets wrecked, everyone inside dies.

_________________
The Dread Pirate Garness

Buttercup: You're the Dread Pirate Roberts, admit it.
Man in Black: With pride. What can I do for you?
Buttercup: You can die slowly, cut into a thousand pieces.
Man in Black: Tsk, tsk. That's hardly complementary Highness. Why loose your venom on me?
Buttercup: You killed my love.
Man in Black: It's possible. I kill a lot of people.

Thanks again guys, love the ideas and tips.

I dropped the Scourges (could not afford them) and added venoms (no cannons) to the blasterborns, also dropped the one man out of each squad
I added 2 wyches to both wych squads, dropped the PGL and Nightshield from the bloodbrides unit. I added splinter racks to the raider for the warriors considering they will use it as a mobile gun platform.

I want to keep the reavers as 2 units to prevent easy annihilation, they seem very fragile.

Here is what it looks like now
(sorry about displaying the point costs before, i should have read the rules...)

Elite: Hekatrix Bloodbrides (345 pts)
. . 1 Succubus, 90 pts = Agoniser + Haywire Grenades
. . 8 Hekatrix Bloodbrides, = Haywire Grenades + Hydra Gauntlets x3
. . . . 1 Syren, = Haywire Grenades + Agoniser
. . . . 1 Raider, = No options

Troops: Kabalite Warriors (180 pts)
. . 10 Kabalite Warriors, = Splinter Cannon
. . . . 1 Raider, = Splinter Racks + Night Shields

Troops: Kabalite Warriors (135 pts)
. . 5 Kabalite Warriors, = Blaster
. . . . 1 Venom, = Splinter Cannon + Night Shields

Troops: Kabalite Warriors (135 pts)
. . 5 Kabalite Warriors, = Blaster
. . . . 1 Venom, = Splinter Cannon + Night Shields

Fast Attack: Reavers (78 pts)
. . 3 Reavers, = Heat Lance

Fast Attack: Reavers (78 pts)
. . 3 Reavers, = Heat Lance

Heavy Support: Ravager (115 pts)
. . 1 Ravager, = Flickerfield

Heavy Support: Ravager (115 pts)
. . 1 Ravager, = Flickerfield

Heavy Support: Ravager (115 pts)
. . 1 Ravager, = Flickerfield

Elite: Kabalite Trueborn (173 pts)
. . 4 Kabalite Trueborn, = Blaster x4
. . . . 1 Venom, = Night Shields 10

Elite: Kabalite Trueborn (173 pts)
. . 4 Kabalite Trueborn, = Blaster x4
. . . . 1 Venom, = Night Shields 10

Troops: Wyches (184 pts)
. . 6 Wyches, = Haywire Grenades
. . . . 1 Hekatrix, = Haywire Grenades + Agoniser
. . . . 1 Raider, = Night Shields

Troops: Wyches (184 pts)
. . 6 Wyches, = Haywire Grenades
. . . . 1 Hekatrix, = Haywire Grenades + Agoniser
. . . . 1 Raider, = Night Shields

Dread Pirate Posts: 685 Join date: 2011-05-19

nalfen wrote:

Thanks again guys, love the ideas and tips.

I dropped the Scourges (could not afford them) and added venoms (no cannons) to the blasterborns, also dropped the one man out of each squad
I added 2 wyches to both wych squads, dropped the PGL and Nightshield from the bloodbrides unit. I added splinter racks to the raider for the warriors considering they will use it as a mobile gun platform.

I want to keep the reavers as 2 units to prevent easy annihilation, they seem very fragile.

Here is what it looks like now
(sorry about displaying the point costs before, i should have read the rules...)

Elite: Hekatrix Bloodbrides (345 pts)
. . 1 Succubus, 90 pts = Agoniser + Haywire Grenades
. . 8 Hekatrix Bloodbrides, = Haywire Grenades + Hydra Gauntlets x3
. . . . 1 Syren, = Haywire Grenades + Agoniser
. . . . 1 Raider, = No options

Drop a couple of the gauntlets and get some shields.

Troops: Kabalite Warriors (180 pts)
. . 10 Kabalite Warriors, = Splinter Cannon
. . . . 1 Raider, = Splinter Racks + Night Shields

Splinter Racks don't affect Splinter cannons. I would drop to 5 warriors and get some shields. Drop Splinter racks as well. If you want more AI, get a shredder. its cheap and has the same range as splinter rifles on the move. or with the points save, get a blaster. Either is alright depending on what you want this unit to do. But I would keep the raider.

Troops: Kabalite Warriors (135 pts)
. . 5 Kabalite Warriors, = Blaster
. . . . 1 Venom, = Splinter Cannon + Night Shields

Troops: Kabalite Warriors (135 pts)
. . 5 Kabalite Warriors, = Blaster
. . . . 1 Venom, = Splinter Cannon + Night Shields

Fast Attack: Reavers (78 pts)
. . 3 Reavers, = Heat Lance

Fast Attack: Reavers (78 pts)
. . 3 Reavers, = Heat Lance

Heavy Support: Ravager (115 pts)
. . 1 Ravager, = Flickerfield

Heavy Support: Ravager (115 pts)
. . 1 Ravager, = Flickerfield

Heavy Support: Ravager (115 pts)
. . 1 Ravager, = Flickerfield

Elite: Kabalite Trueborn (173 pts)
. . 4 Kabalite Trueborn, = Blaster x4
. . . . 1 Venom, = Night Shields 10

Elite: Kabalite Trueborn (173 pts)
. . 4 Kabalite Trueborn, = Blaster x4
. . . . 1 Venom, = Night Shields 10

Troops: Wyches (184 pts)
. . 6 Wyches, = Haywire Grenades
. . . . 1 Hekatrix, = Haywire Grenades + Agoniser
. . . . 1 Raider, = Night Shields

Troops: Wyches (184 pts)
. . 6 Wyches, = Haywire Grenades
. . . . 1 Hekatrix, = Haywire Grenades + Agoniser
. . . . 1 Raider, = Night Shields

You might consider some flicker fields instead of night shields. There is a pretty good on going debate as to which is better. It really depends, in my opinion, on what you intend to do with you raiders. If you intend to get up close, then the night shield will save you from short range small arms fire, like bolters and melta guns, but it won't do diddly against heavy weapons.

My take on them is this, I put Night Shields on my Venoms, in addition to the Flicker fields. It makes them tough little nuts to crack. My wych raiders will get flickerfield first, then a NS if I have points.

Ravagers only get FF. Its a calculated risk against deep striking armies, but I can usually block with good positioning of other units around the ravagers so there won't be any close range melta shots.

_________________
The Dread Pirate Garness

Buttercup: You're the Dread Pirate Roberts, admit it.
Man in Black: With pride. What can I do for you?
Buttercup: You can die slowly, cut into a thousand pieces.
Man in Black: Tsk, tsk. That's hardly complementary Highness. Why loose your venom on me?
Buttercup: You killed my love.
Man in Black: It's possible. I kill a lot of people.

nalfen wrote:

(sorry about displaying the point costs before, i should have read the rules...)

No worries.

You have a very good list now for these opponents, but you will never get a list completely 'right' because your opponent, or the terrain, or the scenario will affect it somehow. Just use whatever you want to.

Re: Scourges vs. Reavers, as you say, you don't have the points for Scourges, but here's a couple of considerations for you. I love Reavers for their speed and mobility, but that's the key to their survival. With the Heaters, you have to get in real close to use them to full effect and that's when Reavers die very quickly, especially in squads of three. As GAR and Shadows Revenge mention, Scourges are also very mobile with Haywire Blasters, and these have a much better range and chance of disabling your target even if it's not destroyed.

Cheers, and good luck.

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Sybarite Posts: 121 Join date: 2011-08-05 Location: Sweden

Hey there.

I would just like to drop in and say a few things. To begin with you have got a lot of help from the guys above me here. But you don't always have to change the exact thing they tell you even if you are new to the game. Try something out and see how it feels. Learn from mistakes etc. That is probably the best idea. However there is lots of information to gather from asking people here about advice. But perhaps try to keep the advices in mind while playing and after the game think true the match and see what would have changed if you had done so and so, and what would have changed if that unit was one of those instead of one of those. You get my point.

Another thing i would like to raise a happy colorful flag for is the mixed WWP's. I know they are getting alot of negative comments from people. Mostly from people who have not tried it but played some math hammer and figured it just isn't worth it. I am in love with the wwp. I play Mech mixed wwp lists, i play Footdar wwp's lists who don't have a vehicle and i play wwp lists that only has a couple of transports to deliver the wwp further forward the first turn. All 3 of these have their pros and cons.

I am not sure what kind of environment you are playing in. Are you a bunch of friends who casual play a game each week? Are you planning on going to tournaments at your local GW store? Are you considering going to real competitive tournaments like NOVA and so on. All these are factors one must take into consideration when creating army lists. Now i do not mean that just because you have created a hybrid you will not do your best to try to win. My point is the opposite. You can still have a very nice game which is both fun and exiting and come out on top with these hybrid lists, you just have to learn how to play your list and of course how to play against different armies with DE since you are new to the codex.

Alot of blathering there i suppose but perhaps you get my point. Trying out things and sit down and thing what kind of warhammer player you are. I was a very competetive tournament fantasy player who regrouped and started with 40k insteed. Until now i have really only been a casual gamer with a few games each week and just learning the ropes and having a good time. Now i am going to a couple of tournaments and raising the bar for myself. The lists however that i bring can differ from being very very strong to incredible weak, but that does not change the fact that when i deploy my forces i am there to win.

I hope you get some nice games against those players.

Sybarite Posts: 196 Join date: 2011-09-04

I've not played Necrons yet but Daemons and Grey Knights I have played lots.

Daemons are unique in that they will come to you which can be great for an assaulty army. I find that expensive weapons that have a good ap value are generally useless, as Daemons all have invulnerable saves and are immune to instant death. I tend to use plenty of shots from warriors and trueborn squads to deal with them followed by a wych assault. Because of our high initiatives they often go at the same time or before and the invulnerable saves take a unit e.g. bloodletters main advantage away.
High toughness Daemons such as Nurgle can be dealt wth because of the poisoned weapons so high strength weapons arn't that essential. Still, a few high strength weapons will be needed if your opponent is using a soul grinder, although this unit, as impressive as it looks, is not actually that great.

As for the Grey Knights you will want plenty of Dark Lances if they come with a mechanised army, however I often find that Grey Knights will field many terminators and Paladins and use them as a hammer unit, which in this case, the best weapon, (and perhaps one of the best anti-terminator weapon in the game) are Disintergrator cannons. These can happily tear through terminators with plenty of ap 2 strength 5 shots.
On top of this I would say swap your flickerfields for Nightshields on the ravagers and keep them just in range if possible. Or even better give them flickerfields as well. Grey Knights don't seem ( at least the ones I've played) to have that great a range on their AT weapons and nightshields can drastically improve your survivability especially at 30-36" away.

I would agree strongly with "Teknistmajjan" above though, play with what you feel you would like to play with and find your own play style.

Ok well i ended up playing 2 games with the above lineup:

First game was a team game, me +chaos daemons vs GK and space marines.

Conquer Scenario with 5 Objectives

Rolled + 1 atk from drugs

Turn 1
Lost initiative so i had to face their entire mech army solo on round 1 while waiting for my chaos friends to warp in. I had modified the list to add NS to the Ravagers and that saved them big time as they wasted a lot of firepower trying to bring them down on round one and only managing a cant shoot on one.

SM dropped podded in on my flank and managed to drop 2 venom from a lucky template hit, his squad managed to seriously hurt the wych squad inside but not finish them up. Also lost 1 blasterborn in the explosion of the venom.

Artillery from both of them also destroyed 2 raiders and 1 more venom but nothing else was lost.

On our turn my chaos ally came in with a skulltaker + plaguebearers, Epidemius with beasts of nurgle and a Bloodthirster, all of them awesome bullet magnets.

I used the remaining blasterborns and the fresh ones in the venom to take care of the 3 dreadnaught closing in on my flank, used the remaining wyches from the destroyed raider to assault the marines, wiping them in the SA but leaving only the hekatrix alive.

My other wych squad started moving towards the middle structure to start harassing the 2 land raiders and one of the dreadknight.

my 2 squads reavers went in and scored an immobilize on both land raiders while the ravagers took down the vindicator that got within night shield range.

My 2 kabals went to sieze the objective and hold it until we could sit nurglings on it.

Turn 2

90% of their attacks focussed on the bloodthirster and skulltaker but failed to bring them down (they really make awesome bullet magnets). They seized the Westermot ovjective with a rhino +thermies so we prety much decided to leave that one alone for now. SM dropped another pod on the east objective and seized it.

The dreadnaughts and the drop pod took out the remaining 3 blasterborns from 1 squad.

The vindicare assassin was starting to get annoying as well but no real damage yet

On our turn My ally brought in Nurgle drones, a soulgrinder and a demon prince of nurgle. the demon prince engaged the other Dreadknight and prety much kept him locked down for the rest of the battle while the drones and soulgrinder started on the landraiders.

I finally got lucky and heat lanced one of the land raiders down, exposing the juicy librarian and SM inside.

the wyches got to the other one and managed to also destroy it with a haywire. exposing a full paladin squad...

My sucubus and bloodbride were left along all this time but i finally moved them in cover to go take care of the vindicare deep inside their lines, i scored a massive 72 attacks taking care of the unit (too almost all of them too...) My biggest kabalite squad moved into cover to try to clear the east objective.

the 3 ravagers proved useless that turn failing to damage anything important due to bad rolls.

I also left the south objective open for the nurglings and started to move the 2 kabalite squads towards the DK and the paladins

My lone Hekatrix engaged the remaining dreadnaught destroying one weapon and basically kept him engaged until the end

Turn 3

After seeing the destructive power of the succubus+bloodbrides they kinda shifted their fire towards that squad, droping templates after templates and massive amounts of firepower on it, thanks to cover and FnP it only killed 7 out of the 10.

They also finished the plaguebearers that were covering the skulltaker and took out 1 squad of reavers.

I had to take ground with my kabalite squad against the 2 templates that were launched on them preventing me from clearing the east objective

On my turn the ravagers destroyed 2 rhinos exposing 2 space marine squads with librarians.
The Wyches started to move towards the paladins. My 2 smaller kabalite squads got in range of the closest dreadknight and obliterated it with shardfire.

I assaulted the newly exposed marines with the remaining 2 bloodbrides and succubus out of cover and obliterated the squad, i reformed towards their other squad.

The skulltaker got in range taking out 2 paladins but taking some severe punishment in the counter attack epidemus and his squad moved in towards the Gk termies and the 2 marine squads i had just exposed.

He also got his plaguefather and more nurglings that turn.

Turn 4

The paladins used a psychic power and wiped my entire wych squad but one(i rolled badly) and kept working on the skulltaker

the SM squad that was close to my succcubus opened fire killing 1 bloodbride then assaulting for mixed results they lost the entire squad but killed the syren leaving only the succubus with 2 wounds, their librarian survived and succeeded his leadership test.

My kabalite warriors cleared the SM squad by the drop pod.

My 2 other kabalite squads started shooting at the other SM + Librarian squad scoring a few kills but nothing great.

The jetbikes also failed to kill anything.

Turn 5

the paladins finished the wyches and the skulltaker and the leftover SM squad captured the central objective.

the remaining librarian finished off my succubus but got obliterated by epidemus and his squad that was moving towards the N objective to contest it.

My ravagers tried to drop the remaining predator but failed.

My big kabalite squad moved to the East objective to try and take it by destroying the drop pob but only managed a weapon destroyed.

My 2 other kabalite squads moved towards the central objective but failed to kill the all of the SM on it and were still too far to contest it.

turn 6
Game ended, we lost 2 to 1

Overall very tight game, loved the way my lineup played and even with the terrible first turn it still managed to score a hefty amount of damage.

I will write up the DE vs Chaos daemons game later but that one was pretty much a wipe-out for the Caos played as he seriously underestimated the CC potential of a DE line.

So to everyone here that gave me hints, thanks a lot it helped me figure out a lot of things about this army and made me love them !