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 Spearhead Close Combat Units

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django_unchained
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PostSubject: Spearhead Close Combat Units   Sun Dec 28 2014, 00:58

Hey guys,


So recently came in first at a local tourney. Beat very good armies on my way to victory:

Round 1, I faced GK with Imperial Knights
Round 2, I faced Necron wraithwing
Round 3, I faced Tau

I went 3-0, and took max points 2/3 of the games. Ran mostly venom spam, with razorwing jets and ravagers etc. The usual lists. I also took grotesquerie. What I noticed was having 2 assault units in a raider flying up the middle really took pressure off of my venoms and other boats, AND they also were able to book it back later in the game and protect my back lines from some of the tougher assaulty units that crossed my lines! Was very fun to play with.

My plan is to try a decent sized unit of Incubi in a raider, and a squad of Grotesques in a raider. Both supported by Haemunculi for the FnP boost, and to get Furious Charge sooner. I'm wondering how you guys feel about this tactic. Thanks in advance!
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Spearhead Close Combat Units   Sun Dec 28 2014, 01:01

Personally I think I like the grotesquerie a little better than mixing and matching with the Incubi. The Grots are a little more survivable.
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django_unchained
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PostSubject: Re: Spearhead Close Combat Units   Sun Dec 28 2014, 01:13

They survive a little better, however incubi are able to fill some roles that the grotesquerie just can't. For instance, Dreadknights. They instant kill grots and grots won't ignore their 2+. They're also only I4. Incubi are EXCELLENT against dreadknights, cleaning up marines (not just tarpitting) and even broadsides and riptides.

Don't get me wrong, love me grotesques, and I know the first 2 turns on the PfP chart are useless for them. But getting to str 6 with furious charge is amazing. I'm assuming Haemies are always with these dudes, as they should be... lol

I make these statements without having tried the Incubi in tandem with them. I get my incubi this week, so I'll throw them together, paint them up and give them a go. Smile
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PainReaver
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PostSubject: Re: Spearhead Close Combat Units   Sun Dec 28 2014, 02:08

Here's my idea for a CC spearhead, involving multiple units locking down multiple enemy units, and also ganging up on a few units.

Tank Unit 1: Succubus w/ Glaive, Armor of Misery, HWG and 3x Grotesques in Raider w/ NS and Aethersail
Tank Unit 2: 5x Wraithblades w/ Axe/Shield or Dual Swords in Raider w/ NS and Aethersail
Assassin Unit 1: Autarch w/ Banshee Mask, Soulshrive, 4x Incubi in Raider w/ NS and Aethersail
Assassin Unit 2: 6x Reavers, 2x CC, 2x HL

The tanks take the overwatch and slowly grind out combats (the former with mass attacks, and the latter with high strength, high AP attacks, whilst both sharing high toughness), meanwhile the assassin units (namely because most of their damage is done on the charge, and one of them is random) hunt small units that aren't so good in CC or supporting the tanks in combat. As for the Incubi, it doesn't really matter if they die, so long the Autarch gets superpowered.

Backing them up with some shooting is 2 warrior venoms w/ Blasters and a Windrider unit, which if focused fire can significantly damage a single unit. But most of the time, they'll be capping objectives whilst the enemy is busy with assault units. The only ranged AT units I have is the Reavers, Scourges, 2 blasters, and the sole Ravager. Most of my AT is in assault.
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Aroban
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PostSubject: Re: Spearhead Close Combat Units   Sun Dec 28 2014, 10:17

Question: if you run the grotesquery, aren't they using the coven PfP table?

I thought so, in my opinion a great bonus to them

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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: Spearhead Close Combat Units   Sun Dec 28 2014, 11:09

I have tried:

5 Sslyth, 3 Lham and 1 Succubus on Raider.

-Keep Istand Dead on 6+ with Lhams
-Keep S5 with Sslyth
-Keep a nice shoot with 15 poisoned shots
-Keep fleet
-and Keep more resiliance of Grotesques, thaks by 5+ Armour save (a twin linked 5+ is better than a single 4+

It works well Smile now I'm using one Court and one Grots. I've played Grotesquerie but if you're going second, you need to DS both Raiders (is difficult keeping completely covered 2 Raiders, expecially vs some armies), and I don't like cutting in half my army.
Court keep me some good shoots, making this units interesting at 24". Grotesques are a great CC units but 2 of them are too expensive in terms of shoot economy of the army (at 1500).

I usually play against Eldar, and a foot Grotesque is a dead Grotesque :-/
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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: Spearhead Close Combat Units   Sun Dec 28 2014, 12:07

Quote :
They survive a little better, however incubi are able to fill some roles that the grotesquerie just can't. For instance, Dreadknights.

Dreadknights? But Incubi will just bounce off Dread Knight. I dont get it.
6s to wound, 5+ invul, 4 atacks that will mulch Incubi on a 2+ with no save.

Blasters and Splinter Cannos are excelent against Dread Knights. Nothing else. Close Combat is a last place to be with DK. Wyches could stand with him, when they did have Venom Blade. Now even them dont.

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Spearhead Close Combat Units   Sun Dec 28 2014, 12:17

Do a DKs fists slow its initiative? I know the hammer doesn't.
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PainReaver
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PostSubject: Re: Spearhead Close Combat Units   Sun Dec 28 2014, 12:30

Wraithblades (with axes) can quite take down the Dreadknight on the charge, though be prepared to lose a couple of wraithblades.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Spearhead Close Combat Units   Sun Dec 28 2014, 12:42

Fire Dragons with a WWP HQ in a Raider would prolly cook the knight's goose but good.
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PainReaver
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PostSubject: Re: Spearhead Close Combat Units   Sun Dec 28 2014, 12:43

@Jimsolo wrote:
Fire Dragons with a WWP HQ in a Raider would prolly cook the knight's goose but good.

Or just even normal Fire Dragons (Exarch w/ FS) with a purchased Venom can do for an even lower price. But less reliable.
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: Spearhead Close Combat Units   Sun Dec 28 2014, 13:44

@Jimsolo wrote:
Fire Dragons with a WWP HQ in a Raider would prolly cook the knight's goose but good.


9 of them. Maybe.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Spearhead Close Combat Units   Sun Dec 28 2014, 14:10

They hit 2/3 of the time.  If they arrive within 6", the average pen result is 15.  6 hits on average, reliably penetrating.  That's not even taking into account the blaster and/or dark lance on the Archon and the Raider itself.

I think a single unit of Fire Dragons can be depended on to destroy the knight, or at the very least utterly cripple it so that a Lance Raider or Ravager can pick off the last HP.
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ShadowcatX
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PostSubject: Re: Spearhead Close Combat Units   Sun Dec 28 2014, 16:29

You're ignoring the knight's void shield in your calculations.

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Javorra
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PostSubject: Re: Spearhead Close Combat Units   Sun Dec 28 2014, 16:41

I think we are talking a bit of dreadknight and a bit of imperial knight...it's gettin confusing scratch
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Spearhead Close Combat Units   Sun Dec 28 2014, 17:31

@ShadowcatX wrote:
You're ignoring the knight's void shield in your calculations.

Yeah. It doesn't provide 360 coverage, correct? So wouldn't you DS into the dead zone?
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Spearhead Close Combat Units   Sun Dec 28 2014, 17:32

@Javorra wrote:
I think we are talking a bit of dreadknight and a bit of imperial knight...it's gettin confusing scratch

True, lol. My bad. Fire Dragons on the drop still rock socks.
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Sigmaril
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PostSubject: Re: Spearhead Close Combat Units   Sun Dec 28 2014, 18:08

@Jimsolo wrote:
@ShadowcatX wrote:
You're ignoring the knight's void shield in your calculations.

Yeah.  It doesn't provide 360 coverage, correct?  So wouldn't you DS into the dead zone?
The Ion shield only covers one facing. The problem with this is that he won't be picking a side until your shooting phase. Fun fact, though: Most Eldar can move before shooting.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Spearhead Close Combat Units   Sun Dec 28 2014, 20:43

True. If your open topped transport covers more than one facing, can you choose which part the passengers shoot from? That's actually never come up for me, but with a Raider it probably could.
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Sigmaril
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PostSubject: Re: Spearhead Close Combat Units   Sun Dec 28 2014, 21:38

Indeed you can. Passengers on Open-Topped transports measure range and Line of sight from ANY point on the hull.
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SCP Yeeman
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PostSubject: Re: Spearhead Close Combat Units   Sun Dec 28 2014, 21:48

@ OP

Couldn't you run a couple Succubi with the Grots for the AP2 that you want? They will benefit from the FC from Power From Pain Table and give some Int 6 goodness rather than Int 4 like the Grots. If you keep them cheap it isn't too much of a price hike from the Haemons.

Succubi, Glaive, Haywire Grandes- 100pts.

Thoughts?
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