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The_Burning_Eye
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I am being swayed. I may need to invest next time funds are available (damn damn damn, so many things!)

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Harlequins release in early 2015? - February 3, Skyweaver jetbike rules leaked   Harlequins release in early 2015? - February 3, Skyweaver jetbike rules leaked - Page 10 I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 04 2015, 09:11

They seem to be very confused. WS5 with A3 and cc weapon options but no grenades but also carrying a hoofing great big gun that will either not be able to fire or will only be 17% effective when it does. Rolling Eyes

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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: Harlequins release in early 2015? - February 3, Skyweaver jetbike rules leaked   Harlequins release in early 2015? - February 3, Skyweaver jetbike rules leaked - Page 10 I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 04 2015, 09:21

I think their effectiveness will be dependent on how good the transport is.

The Troupe seems to be looking pretty nasty in CC, so if the transport to get them there is decent I'd expect my opponent to be focusing on them. I suspect running them I'd probably burn through the rumoured invun in the first couple of turn to maximise early firepower from the shuriken cannon (no way am i taking a small blast haywire, none of my opponents are stupid enough to put tanks that close to each other).

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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Harlequins release in early 2015? - February 3, Skyweaver jetbike rules leaked   Harlequins release in early 2015? - February 3, Skyweaver jetbike rules leaked - Page 10 I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 04 2015, 09:48

I agree shuriken cannon and glaive seems the best way to run them. 4-6 ideally as a mobile light AT / assault support unit. They can smash most things on the charge and 6 of them with glaives and HoW will be very dangerous on the charge especially combined with bladestorming shuriken cannons.

18 shots, 12 hits, 8 wounds+2 blade storm wounds - 5 MEQ kills

24 attacks, 16 hits, 10 AP2 wounds vs MEQ

This is a horribly effective unit though the cost is significant!

Running them in units of 3 seems an ideal compromise...

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Aroban
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PostSubject: Re: Harlequins release in early 2015? - February 3, Skyweaver jetbike rules leaked   Harlequins release in early 2015? - February 3, Skyweaver jetbike rules leaked - Page 10 I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 04 2015, 09:50

They have a holo suit, isn't that the 5+ invulnerable thingy?

These bikes look like a mix of reavers and venoms with a hellion on the back end... Not too bad Very Happy

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Harlequins release in early 2015? - February 3, Skyweaver jetbike rules leaked   Harlequins release in early 2015? - February 3, Skyweaver jetbike rules leaked - Page 10 I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 04 2015, 10:07

@Aroban wrote:
They have a holo suit, isn't that the 5+ invulnerable thingy?

It is, and I had overlooked that. It does make them a bit more durable without jinking.

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PostSubject: Re: Harlequins release in early 2015? - February 3, Skyweaver jetbike rules leaked   Harlequins release in early 2015? - February 3, Skyweaver jetbike rules leaked - Page 10 I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 04 2015, 10:11

T4 W2 5++/4++ and 50 points. Not even skilled rider. Not even flip belts. I only need two cos they are cool looking

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PostSubject: Re: Harlequins release in early 2015? - February 3, Skyweaver jetbike rules leaked   Harlequins release in early 2015? - February 3, Skyweaver jetbike rules leaked - Page 10 I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 04 2015, 11:24

@Aroban wrote:
These bikes look like a mix of reavers and venoms with a hellion on the back end... Not too bad Very Happy

That's one way to proxy them, I guess. Wink
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Harlequins release in early 2015? - February 3, Skyweaver jetbike rules leaked   Harlequins release in early 2015? - February 3, Skyweaver jetbike rules leaked - Page 10 I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 04 2015, 11:55

@Rokuro wrote:
@Aroban wrote:
These bikes look like a mix of reavers and venoms with a hellion on the back end... Not too bad Very Happy

That's one way to proxy them, I guess. Wink

I reckon GW have been nicking my ideas

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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Harlequins release in early 2015? - February 3, Skyweaver jetbike rules leaked   Harlequins release in early 2015? - February 3, Skyweaver jetbike rules leaked - Page 10 I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 04 2015, 12:12

The fighting platform on the back of a vyper was a 2nd ed thing which is what these new ones harkon back to IMO, much like 2nd ed was the last official rules for the solitaire

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Cavalier
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PostSubject: Re: Harlequins release in early 2015? - February 3, Skyweaver jetbike rules leaked   Harlequins release in early 2015? - February 3, Skyweaver jetbike rules leaked - Page 10 I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 04 2015, 12:13

The models are awesome and their tabletop value seems good. Shouldn't be hard to keep them out of LOS until their in range, they've got the speed to wolf-pack with other units, a variety of save options to prevent jinking when necessary and a very good amount of firepower to keep a lot of pressure on choice targets. They seem like they'd make a great escort unit probably for the forthcoming Harlie transport but also for Raiders, Venoms and even Wave Serpents.


I think the CC would come in handy for escorting assault units giving them fire support as they get in close then jumping into the fray along side the unit they were escorting. Not to mention they are good CC deterrent for anything trying to jump those vehicles in CC before they get to their intended target.

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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: Harlequins release in early 2015? - February 3, Skyweaver jetbike rules leaked   Harlequins release in early 2015? - February 3, Skyweaver jetbike rules leaked - Page 10 I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 04 2015, 12:30

Seems like their biggest weaknesses will be stuff like assault cannons, heavy bolters etc - relatively high rate of fire but AP4 at worst. Just a few initial thoughts on utilising their save options though -

4+ Armour save
4++ save once per game
5++ save
4+ dodge save

If i go first - my turn 1 shooting, opp turn 1 using either 4+ armour or 4++ mirage, my turn 2 shooting. That's 2 full turns of shooting at max effect without losing efficiency except through casualties.

If i go second - I probably utilise the armour/mirage save first turn then stick to the 5++ save after that - can't see jinking being so much better to justify losing my own shooting. Only instance I'd consider would be if I were planning on charging in the next turn, when my shooting becomes less of a necessity.

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Cavalier
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PostSubject: Re: Harlequins release in early 2015? - February 3, Skyweaver jetbike rules leaked   Harlequins release in early 2015? - February 3, Skyweaver jetbike rules leaked - Page 10 I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 04 2015, 14:27

Good points TBE. When you think of Eldar in the assault phase you gotta go through a number of shifting sequences in your head. As you make your way across the board ya gotta know ahead of time whether you are going   jink/armor save/cover save/invuln. save  and also shoot/turbo boost.

Then when you are ready to assault you gotta figure whose going in first.

Lack of grenades is a pain... but if you have Harlies riding in a transport alongside the JB's they can go in first, followed by the bikes. The small number of models in each squad will probably keep you from wiping out their chosen target and then you can hit and run out.

Complicated but worth it IMO especially with the very nice amount of shooting you get as you make your way across the board. I'm definitley gonna give it a go-round as I really want a versatile assault unit in my army at least as an ally.

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PostSubject: Re: Harlequins release in early 2015? - February 3, Skyweaver jetbike rules leaked   Harlequins release in early 2015? - February 3, Skyweaver jetbike rules leaked - Page 10 I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 04 2015, 16:52

I saw "invulnerable save against shooting instead of jink(cover)"
*proceeds to Craigslist to sell a kidney so I can buy these*

I don't even care if they're terrible, anything to annoy Tau with their stupid markerlights is a win in my book!

Long lasting vendetta's of my inner archon aside; these guys could be great for surprising your opponent with a bunch of S6 blasts to the face (Yes, I'm actually considering the tripod of doom) or slapping termies, but as with all quins: very squishy for the points (But hey, we're DE, thats what we do right?)

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50 pts...wow.
Is there even more expensive base model like this in 40k?

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PostSubject: Re: Harlequins release in early 2015? - February 3, Skyweaver jetbike rules leaked   Harlequins release in early 2015? - February 3, Skyweaver jetbike rules leaked - Page 10 I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 04 2015, 17:12

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@Rokuro wrote:
@Aroban wrote:
These bikes look like a mix of reavers and venoms with a hellion on the back end... Not too bad Very Happy

That's one way to proxy them, I guess. Wink

I reckon GW have been nicking my ideas

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thats exactly it

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@Azdrubael wrote:
Is there even more expensive base model like this in 40k?
SM attack bikes are in the same price range, Paladins and broadsides are even more expensive iirc.

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@Count Adhemar wrote:
I reckon GW have been nicking my ideas

Harlequins release in early 2015? - February 3, Skyweaver jetbike rules leaked - Page 10 P1010629

^^ exalted!

I am not terribly impressed with the small masques slapped on the front canopy of these new bikes, given what Harlequin bikes had in the past Evil or Very Mad

I think mine will be visiting my pet Haemie's workshop for some careful grafting![/quote]
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@Count Adhemar wrote:
I reckon GW have been nicking my ideas

Harlequins release in early 2015? - February 3, Skyweaver jetbike rules leaked - Page 10 P1010629

^^ exalted!

I am not terribly impressed with the small masques slapped on the front canopy of these new bikes, given what Harlequin bikes had in the past Evil or Very Mad

I think mine will be visiting my pet Haemie's workshop for some careful grafting!
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colinsherlow
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I like this unit quite a lot. If I took a unit of 6 I'd keep two of the crappy st6 ap2 blasts just in case termies show up all huddled together. And that saves a few points as well. I still reserve judgement until I see the book.

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I really think that you want to keep units of these small and use them as fire support. It cost so much to kit them for assault, and they only have 4 attacks on the charge. It also looks like they lack any form of assault grenades making them tricky to use, but there is the possibility of their jet bike having some rule we are unaware of. They are S5 AP2 though so maybe it's still worth it.

The more I think about the blast weapons the more I think that they might be an option. Their armor save is the as their jink save, so you should only have to jink when high S or low AP is shot at them. We should be able to minimize this with the jet bike assault move to stay behind cover. Keeping a small unit size makes this easier, and makes them less appealing to shoot at with those types of weapons.

I initially thought of the haywire as strictly anti-tank like it pretty much is with scourges, but the blast is S4 AP4 which actually isn't bad vs a lot of army's infantry. I don't think it's as good vs infantry as the shuriken cannon, but it allows them to operate more as a Swiss Army knife than strictly anti-tank or anti-infantry.

It will be interesting to see if there are any formations that benefit these.
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Azdrubael
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Hmm....i think most usefull build for them would be 2 bikes per unit, shuriken cannons, AP2 spears.

120 points, not super cheap for what it brings, but still its 6 S6 Bladestorm shots, and 8 S5 AP2 atacks on the charge at WS5. Not so bad actually, a little bit on expensive side, but tis Harlequins, elite army. They bring about 3.5 unsaved wounds on T4 on the charge.

And with this small unit size, you should probably easily hide them behind LOS block.
I hope you can use Jump Shoot Jump tactic of Eldar Jetbike, if they have EJB move in the assault phase. Would be pretty stupid if they dont.

They certainly arent attention catchers, more like skulkers from the shadows, like Vypers, or Eldar Jetbikes. Completely different beasts from Reavers. Any CC they might bring is purely support for main assault. But they will bring stable AP2 wounds there, so might help with any ongoing combat.

Actually the size of the unit is what i like most, they look only marginally larger then Reavers, but at 2 models they are already functional and seem like easy to hide.

I could easily see 2 such small units supporting Harlequins detachment.

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@Gobsmakked wrote:
I am not terribly impressed with the small masques slapped on the front canopy of these new bikes, given what Harlequin bikes had in the past
May want to consider these. I wonder how easily they would fit the Skyweavers.

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Nice, Erebus, thanks!
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The_Burning_Eye
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Yeah the fit of those cowls would be my biggest worry, since these look like a new shape. I'm sure it won't be long before someone brings out an alternative though!

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