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 pointing the gun of a raider, or venom

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Epimetheus
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PostSubject: pointing the gun of a raider, or venom   Mon Dec 22 2014, 12:30

hi everyone, I have been thinking a lot about the mounted guns on the Raider and Venom, since they are put on turrets that can swirl a bit (except for the under slung splinter cannon of the Venom). Are they all 90 degrees (45 degrees to either side), counted from the front fixed barrel of the gun or can i spin the turret arround to fire in different directions? The Raveger side guns for instance seem to be able to fire in a 180 arc. I have been playing the guns in a way that gives all guns 90 degrees counted from the pivot of the turret on all guns, but i have a hard time finding any official guidelines about this. The Rhino/ Predator examples does not really help since they state how to aim different types of guns but nowhere can i find what cannon is what.

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Vasara
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PostSubject: Re: pointing the gun of a raider, or venom   Mon Dec 22 2014, 12:36

180 for both Venom Cannons (ETC clarification)
180 for Raider and Ravager bow cannon
app 210 for Ravager side cannons

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Epimetheus
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PostSubject: Re: pointing the gun of a raider, or venom   Mon Dec 22 2014, 13:18

I understand the ETC to be the European Tournament, are these clarifications sanctioned by GW or other source? I think it sounds reasonable but I am wondering how I can use this in a friendly game that where competition rules do not apply?
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Vasara
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PostSubject: Re: pointing the gun of a raider, or venom   Mon Dec 22 2014, 13:25

GW says look from th model how much the weapon can turn.

ETC is an european tournament comp that sometimes clarifyes unclear issues that GW doesn't bother to clarify.

Degrees above can be seen from the model in my opinion. Others have different opinions.

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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: pointing the gun of a raider, or venom   Mon Dec 22 2014, 14:18

Indeed, I'd say the prow cannons on raiders and venoms can move considerably less than 180, and i generally work on the basis that the venom underslung cannon is a 'hull mounted' weapon and so only has a 45 degree arc.

The ravager side cannons are genuine turrets and so if you can rotate the gun to point at the target, they can shoot at it.

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: pointing the gun of a raider, or venom   Mon Dec 22 2014, 23:06

My Ravagers are articulated fully and have a 360 arc of fire (it takes a little finagling, but it can be done).
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Myrvn
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PostSubject: Re: pointing the gun of a raider, or venom   Mon Dec 22 2014, 23:39

My view (unsubstantiated) is a 90 degree on the front for venom's and raiders. I'd be curious to see Jim's in a pic. Sounds neat, but I can't see it.
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Lietkar
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PostSubject: Re: pointing the gun of a raider, or venom   Fri Dec 26 2014, 00:23

It makes sense to use the vehicule weapons as follow:
- Raider: 180
- Venom: 180 for both (the lower Splinter canon is clearly a Turret, not a Hull mounted weapon like the lance in the Razorwing for example)
- Ravager: Front weapon 180, Side weapon: 210+ (like a Predator or Landraider)

The only thing that bothers me, is that in the BRB p.74, there is only 4 kind of Arc of sight values: 360, 210, 90 and 45. There is no mention of 180. This mean we could use the following:
- Raider: 360 (Turret mounted or Pintle mounted)
- Venom: both wepon 360 (Turret mounted or Pintle mounted)
- Ravager: Front weapon 360 (Turret mounted or Pintle mounted), Side weapon: 210+ (like a Predator or Landraider)

I always play using the First case, but the Second seems right in a Raw rule point of view.


Last edited by Lietkar on Fri Dec 26 2014, 02:01; edited 1 time in total
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Sigmaril
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PostSubject: Re: pointing the gun of a raider, or venom   Fri Dec 26 2014, 00:30

You guys do realize the front weapon on raider/ravager, and top gun on venoms have a gunner, right? Where would he stand in the 180 example?
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Erebus
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PostSubject: Re: pointing the gun of a raider, or venom   Fri Dec 26 2014, 01:05

If you are using only the 4 examples shown in the rulebook, the prow gun of the Raider/Ravager would have a 90º arc. Between the aforementioned gunner and the railing, there's no way it could reasonably pivot 210º, never mind rotate a full 360º.

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Lietkar
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PostSubject: Re: pointing the gun of a raider, or venom   Fri Dec 26 2014, 01:50

@Sigmaril wrote:
You guys do realize the front weapon on raider/ravager, and top gun on venoms have a gunner, right? Where would he stand in the 180 example?

Fluff wise, he would have to bend over on the side to make his mark, but this sounds tricky and would obviously limit the angle. But then, are we talking rule or fluff?

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Last edited by Lietkar on Fri Dec 26 2014, 02:00; edited 1 time in total
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Lietkar
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PostSubject: Re: pointing the gun of a raider, or venom   Fri Dec 26 2014, 01:59

@Erebus wrote:
If you are using only the 4 examples shown in the rulebook, the prow gun of the Raider/Ravager would have a 90º arc. Between the aforementioned gunner and the railing, there's no way it could reasonably pivot 210º, never mind rotate a full 360º.

Would you see the prow gun and side guns as following the Sponson mounted weapon example? It would mean that the angle is determined by the actual physical limitations of the models?
Prow gun 90?
Side gun 180?

It makes sense. But as I mentioned, I agree with the ETC ruling, but felt that there were other interpretations as well.

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Erebus
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PostSubject: Re: pointing the gun of a raider, or venom   Fri Dec 26 2014, 02:58

@Lietkar wrote:
Would you see the prow gun and side guns as following the Sponson mounted weapon example? It would mean that the angle is determined by the actual physical limitations of the models?
Prow gun 90?
Side gun 180?
In terms of gameplay, yes.

The definition of a sponson (at least in this context) is "a structure projecting from the side or main deck of a vessel to support a gun". The prow and side guns each fit that description exactly, though I suppose one could argue that they are also pintle-mounted by definition.

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commandersasha
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PostSubject: Re: pointing the gun of a raider, or venom   Fri Dec 26 2014, 13:10

I have no problem imagining the prow gunner on a Raider/Ravager swinging the gun right round, feet on the hull, hanging off his gun, so I play both of them as 270' pintle mounts, not able to fire back through the masts/riders etc.
I've always treated the lower cannon on the venom as hull-mounted, but then I bought mine built, and it hadn't occurred to me to swivel them.

To me it seems fair that if I park badly, my shooting should be reduced, so I frequently find a Venom can shoot with the top gun but not the bottom.
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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: pointing the gun of a raider, or venom   Fri Dec 26 2014, 15:06

Not even sure if the Gunners Controlpad can also function as remote, which would allow him to get a huge fire arc while just staying a little back
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