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 A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics

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BetrayTheWorld
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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   Thu Oct 30 2014, 21:39

@egorey wrote:
I doubt the kabalites will do anything turn one if you go first BTW.

You're probably right. But they'll likely replace any splinter fire lost in turn 1 in turn 2.

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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   Thu Oct 30 2014, 22:26

Fight fight fight fight fight fight!

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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   Fri Oct 31 2014, 03:05

Well you really underestimate the psychic Nid powers in 7ed.

Apart from catalyst - obviously good - terror - great for pinning - paroxysm - a nice debuff we have warp blast.

7th edition's psychic phase really buffed that power - yes, it made it harder to cast, but a Flyrant is able to drop Lance/Blast and still fire both Devs or a Dev and an ESG. Before, the risk wasn't worth the reward. Now it indisputably is. And if we get a few going the match suddenly changes.

DE have zero psychic defense against this Nid list using your venom spam. Just something to think about. Is it enough to tip the scales? I'm not sure - would be interesting to find out though, eh.


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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   Fri Oct 31 2014, 03:14

Yeah, the psychic powers aren't bad at all. The thing is, all of my valid infantry targets are in transports. And if you're targetting those transports, you're not targetting the venoms.

Even when you inevitably CAN target them, it really doesn't make a huge difference, imo, because no one unit is really that valuable in my list. It's all cheap spam.

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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   Fri Oct 31 2014, 03:57

I'm going to break of this discussion until these two lists face off in vassal - hopefully we can get that done. I'm going to revisit IA 13 again.

Let's look at this relic

'Death of Kasyr Lutein'
"When psychic tests to use malific daemonology powers are made by friendly psykers within 12" of the vehicle, one d6 may be re-rolled for every hull point the vehicle has remaining (each may only be re-rolled once, regardless of how many HP the vehicle has left). If the test is failed, the vehicle suffers a penetrating hit in additional to any normal consequences to the Psyker"

So we purchase this for a vehicle. Hmm ... what vehicle has 12 HP? Yes, you can take that Fellblade. You can get twelve rerolls per turn (arguably per psyker but I'll assume for now the twelve rerolls must be split). Now it is pretty easy to get Lvl 3 sorcs in a daewmon/CSM list. Ahriman is lvl 4.

So now I can summon with WC 3 spells with impunity. Hello - I can get a bloodthirster, a keeper of secrets, a GUO or a LoC every turn? Say it aint so. I can also get )on the same turn) a unit of screamers, plague drones or fiends? Or heralds? With three or four casters this is very doable folks.

And the fellblade itself is not too shabby - lets be honest. How I want to build a list around the combo starts to become almost superflous when I'm spawning major threats each turn instead of a squad of horrors or daemonettes. This is a beefy daemon spawning factory.

You already know the tricks you can use with sorcerers and large squads with IA 13. We can easily ally in a few Tzeentch heralds. So buffering my factory will not be too hard. You had better take out that fellblade turn one, lol. Otherwise it is going to be a short, nasty game.

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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   Fri Oct 31 2014, 23:57

Buying those models is the hard part here. It isn't worth it with squads or anything, plague drones might be the exception. First thoughts are that it can be countered by killing that one vehicle. Maybe harder said than done, I feel it would be more legit if you made a nice list and had those as a side thing. Maybe 1-2 Casters tops if you are allowed those re roll capabilities. And once those caster or vehicle get popped you haven't invested too many points into the cause. Sounds like a lot of fun. I would never want to summon more Daemons but summoning flying DPs would be the way to go.

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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   Sat Nov 01 2014, 02:07

Holy cow that really is an intriguing proposition if you have the models and arent afraid to use 'em. I think without seeing all the exact text, I would default to 12 re-rolls per turn. And talk about a vehicle that will get prioritized! Hopefully in time? Who knows.

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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   Sat Nov 01 2014, 02:31

So let me make this clear - there are units and this case a relic in FW that I would never use on the table top. There is indeed a problem using some of the units and formations ettc., in IA 13. I am illustrating one such. I am sure there are other jewels. When you start breaking rules (like 50 man zombie squads, etc.), the game begins to break down quickly.

Some might remember  the earlier discussion of the relentless sentry pylons. There was a 6th ed FaQ saying the line was thin- there is no 7ed FaQ and really who cares with a range 3D6 AP 2 Str 10 double damage split fire three lines that DS all over the table even out of cc. I'll never use it.        

But to clarify - the fellblade has 12 HP. So you as an opponent will be focusing ALL your firepower trying to take it down and I will be trying to take out those threats. In the mean time I am grabbing mission points, setting up the rest of army, spawning GDs etc. I am okay losing up to SIX HP without the daemon factory suffering much. So I figurr with a proper list to support the fellblade I should get minimum three turns of GD spawning and have done considerable damage with the GDs and fellblade. In essence it is win/win. Ignore the felllblade and you will suffer dire consequences. Focus all your attention on it and you will suffer dire consequences.

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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   Sat Nov 01 2014, 02:34

Kill the caster(s)?

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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   Sat Nov 01 2014, 02:42

Cant reach them in all likelihood.

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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   Sat Nov 01 2014, 05:43

Th casters will be out of LoS entirely to be sure. So you would need first turn drop pods that could perhaps if I do not have units buffering, maybe get to one of three or four casters and hopefully take one out - not impossible but of course expect me to replenish that caster on my first spawn with an LoC. So ...

Nothing is unbeatable. This we have to acknowledge. It does not, however make this particular combo any less broken though. The truth is it would be very hard to get an enjoyable game against such a list. The odds are stacked much to heavily in its favor. This is what happens when FW does think through the possible interactions of its units. The fellblade was already quite a formidable tank. Giving vehicles this relic  - and think typhoon, brass scorpian and other vehicles that could also be used - was not thought out at all.

I am sure the justification will be that it costs in excess of 1300 points to get all the parts needed. Bear in mind though that the parts themselves can all do damage on their own. The casters can be decent units, the fellblade is a great unit. They work without the lethality of the relic on their own. The relic costs just s few extra points on a fellblade.

GW and many tournaments have made the decision to allow FW, LoWs , Super heavies , etc., playable at venues. The situation needs monitoring and it is. Venues that allow FW and LoWs still prohibit certain units. As player I feel obligated to point out poor rules writing and ill considered relics such as this one notices with the hope that I'm not alone and someone who can takes appropriate action.

And just as a quick revamp on Nids ...

Building towards a "to win" formula is  simple for toiurnaments:
You start with 2 DakkaFlyrants, 2 DS Ripper Swarms, a Malanthrope (or 2),

After that you can add...
A Barbed Heirodule, Dakkafex, Acid T.Fex, Hive Crone, Harpy, Dimachaeron.

Note you want enough models on the table too so you could play with formations too ...
Skyblight Swarm, Living Artillery Node... Endless Swarm.

Now as Betray pointed out , the list I posted was very MC heavy. If you face an army that handles MCs well you can run into very tough matches. So it become s a choice as to the direction you want to go after filling in the initial 500 pts of MCs.

Now at Unorthodoxy's tournament Nids were the winners. Of course he played single codex only and no FW units. But the formula is still pretty straightforward. The notion that Nids are a tier two list irks me somewhat as I've seen them do well at a number of venues. But you judge for yourselves.

My biggest issues with Nids is that there are units that are 'must haves' in any competitive list. This really dictates how you field them. Sure there are some optional;l slots. You can persona;ize the list a little - of course. But in a very competitive meta you will be following the formula if you want success.

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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   Sun Nov 02 2014, 16:45

Won another tournament last night using this list:

Lelith
Eldrad
Farseer w/Spirit Stone of Anath'Lan
3x5 Kabalite Warriors in raiders
1x5 Kabalite Warriors w/Sybarite + Power Sword in a raider
2x 3 Windrider Jetbikes
3 Reavers w/Heat lance & Cluster Caltrops
2x 3 Vaul's Wrath Support Batteries(Vibro Cannons)
TOTAL: 1250

It was an interesting tournament. The TO's didn't want warlord traits and random pre-game rolls slowing down the tournament, so they had everyone roll for warlord traits, psychic powers, combat drugs and the like before the tournament, and you kept the same ones across all 3 matches.

I made the farseer my warlord and took the personal chart, hoping to get counter-attack. Ended up with furious charge. For my psychic powers, I got the following:
Farseer:
Guide
Prescience
Fortune

Eldrad:
Banishment
Gate of Infinity
Sanctuary
Hammerhand
Cleansing flame

When I made this list, I didn't envision my "mini-deathstar" of eldrad, lelith, and farseer babysitting/hiding in a vaul's support battery the entire game, but that's what happened in pretty much all 3 of my games. Fortunately, it worked out well. The combination of fortune and sanctuary gave me 2+ rerollable invuln saves, and them being attached to the artillery unit made them T7 against shooting attacks. Guide and prescience on vibro-cannons virtually guarantees you're going to be HITTING with 3 S9 AP2 attacks any time they fire. They worked out great against vehicles, and when I played lists with more creatures/infantry, they worked pretty well too. They were definitely the key to my win in my game against a Tyranid Sky Blight list. I managed to steal the initiative that game, and focus fired his hovering warlord before he could go into swoop mode. I managed to kill him for first blood and slay the warlord, taking my opponent from 2 synapse creatures to 1. With 1, it ended up just not being enough, and I was able to continuously pin any of his obsec units that wandered outside synapse range, denying them the ability to score.

Overall, the list worked out pretty well. I defeated The Space Wolves(Harold & his space wolf cavalry), The Tyranid Sky Blight, and Chaos Space Marines to win the tournament. I suspect that if I faced bigger hordes, I might not have fared so well.

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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   Sun Nov 02 2014, 17:12

Just curious - did you ever use the gate? And congrats on the win - nice list. Did Lelith do anything for you?

Continuing IA:13


Vessel of Tzenahk the Occluder
Vehicle and Supes - Fear. At the beginning of the game, roll a D6... 1. If this vehicle is destroyed, opponent bags an extra VP. 2-6. If it survives, you get an additional D3 VPs and counts as Daemonic Possession as per CSM book. Holy what? I put this on the Fire Raptor ( heavy support choice) and I'm off to the races

Chaos Dreadclaw Drop Pod
Is an assault vehicle with frag launchers burninating when zipping about - this is way better than the loyalist version. It is a dedicated transport for a squad of 5 CSM with melta - already one of the best troop slots in 40k. It can also be taken as a fast attack slot (if you use daemon allies just consider the possibilities).

Fire Raptors
Again the chaos version rocks and you add warplane gargoyles ( all weapons have soul blaze)

So for 5 points more than a Heldrake -
Fire Raptor, balefire missiles, reaper autocannons, Vessel of Tzenahk the Occluder
This one nasty unit indeed. A fire raptor is a heavy chic as well so you still have heldrakes as an option for your fast attack slots. The Raptor has strafing run and its turrets fire independently of the other weapons (reaper batteries). t's a devastatingly capable gunship that's going to tear apart infantry and light vehicles very quickly. This thing is one of the big wins for the CSM's in the book, a very capable and deadly flier.

Balefire missiles (S5 AP6 ignore cover)
Reaper Batteries (Reaper Autocannons with twice as many shots) for a bit less than the price of a basic CSM.

So we want two or three Foire raptors now in CSM lists ( I would say near auto-includes if FW is allowed and we want two or three Heldrakes with autocannons ( we have baleflamers on the Raptors)

Suddenly you have a list that is one of the best AA lists in the game. Add a Bastion and commas for some real fun to the list.

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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   Sun Nov 02 2014, 17:51

Daemon Summoning List I made up/joked about last night after the tournament:

Iyanden Dual CAD:

20 spiritseers
3 Warlocks
3x10 Guardian Defenders
5 Dire Avengers
TOTAL: 1840

Spread all the guardians and dire avengers out in as long a line as possible through your deployment zone, preferably in cover. Place warlocks in guardian squads to give them conceal. Place 1 spiritseer in each squad, while placing the rest spread out along the gunline in a solo unit each, but within 6" of the gunline to be able to sacrifice guardians for summoning. 43 Warp charge summoning army. Can summon whatever AT/AA you need based on the opponent you're facing. Profit.

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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   Sun Nov 02 2014, 21:50

BTW.  DuckofDeath.  Here is some fluff I thought of for this force Im building.

Tell me what you think.  Had to take a break from the fumes and the brushes....  ugh!  Lol.  Perhaps you'll catch the GWesque tongue in cheek reference in the names.  =)

The planet and Sept known as Acan'thurus with it's very large and equally fertile moon lin'eatus, is home to the underwater operational command center of the Tau Empire, a planet specially designated for designing underwater colonization and the training of the Fire Warriors who specialize in those missions.

The planets mission was Inspired by a heroic Guevesa Harden McDermott who had come from Terra itself before finding his way into the allegiance of the Tau Empire, he had often spoken fondly of the paradise lost on Terra and the times of his forebears, how the only beauty to be found anywhere in the IMperium were the oceanic super complexes from which many planets were fed.

The Aun were so profoundly affected by his love and passion that they honored his passing as a symbol of the heights one could rise to in the Tau Empire when your passions are true and your purity of focus undaunted by the grimness around you.  As a practical matter the idea of Underwater food production had not immediately occurred to the plains dwelling Tau but once their imaginations were opened to the possibilities, Technology followed and in short order the galaxy could not create better habitational domes nor more productive underwater sustainable farming techniques than the Tau created in the next one hundred years.

And so it is that the planet and its Sept are named after the fish's his native people had loved and that had sustained their ancestors.  No Guevesa before or sense has been given such a lofty place in the lore of the Tau Empire.

The Squadrons of Devilfish's that provide Transport and towing capabilities to and from the surface stations are a major part of the Sept's armory.  Due to the extreme pressures underwater, at the depths required the Riptide Battlesuits and other heavy battlesuits are often called upon to handle deep water threats and drilling operations, so it is not uncommon to see them in the Sept.

Pathfinders are trained to delve caverns once they have been pressurized and to locate ore deposits and map the massive underwater caverns that riddle the relatively stable tectonics of the planet and its moon.  They carry Rail Rifles often to manage drilling where it is needed and of course the Pulse Carbine and its concussive force is ideal for handling underwater predators who don’t appreciate the intrusion.  These underwater caverns have allowed the Tau to amass great wealth from the considerable resources  of their planet, especially the rish diamond and Asmirium crystals the planets gravity and depths have helped to lock away.  This wealth allows the colonial force to be completely financially independent and many Septs send their Earth Caste members here to learn from the Acan'thurus  Sept and their methods; as well as to prepare their own Septs for their own colinization efforts.  This thriving business in education also marks the Sept as one of the most highly educated Septs.

Even though it is very much Earth Caste dominated, the Fire Warriors of the planet are trained and drilled in incredibly complex underwater martial arts and three dimensional combat, and are sought for deep space missions constantly for that reason.  The Hive Fleets of the Tyranids have learned to fear with good reason the incredible #D combat skills of the Acan'thurus, who can take the fight TO the Splinter fleets.  Though orbital defenses are quite good on Acan'thurus, the rich oceans of the moon and planet are just too ferile a ground to allow the Hive Spinaters to reach them.  And so the Sept has adopted a very aggressive Fire Warrior policy of sending its warriors AT the Hive fleets on approach, using the Mantas to deliver them directly to the hull and then executing their excavation and eradication protocols.  More than one splinter has arrived, empty and lifeless to crash harmlessly into the orbital defense guns and be disintegrated without incident.  

It was an Ork Incursion in which this bravery was exhibited that caught Commander Farsights attention.  As a far flung colony, the Acan'thurus are closer to Commander Farsights areas of control than they are the Tau Empires!  The Enclave was in pursuit of the Ork junker 'Da Giblet, when they were surprised to see the Acan'thurus force approach and finish the desperate and damaged ork ship in close combat, attaching EMP grenades to the outsides of the ship while being assaulted by Orks in space suits.  The resulting elimination of the Ork Life support systems doomed them and the Farsight Enclave announced its presence to make sure the Acan'thurus would not mistake their intentions.  Relations are friendly with the Farsight Enclave and the Acan'thurus Ambassadors have lobbied in secret with Aun'Va to heal the rift between the two nations now that there are at least some relations to be tested.  It is rumored that Aun'Va himself will arrive to not only meditate with the Acan'thurus but to fight alongside the Enclave forces to observe for himself what has become of them

inspiration 1

Inspiration 2

INspiration 3

and of course our final decision:  
The INspiration for the Tau Sept of Acan'thurus

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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   Mon Nov 03 2014, 00:52

Well, that is really something. You have tied everything together very well. Many thanks.


Summoning lists - which is best?


Betray- I would play your list like this:

20 Spiritseers, 2 singing spears 1400
4x 10 Guardian Defenders, Brightlance - 440

Here is my thought - If you roll 15 seers on malefic you will get all the daemons you want - so roll 5 seers and ten powers on telepathy and try for a few invisibility - this will keep your guardian squads alive all game.

Depending on wjhat you get you had better come prepared with eight GDs (5 LoC and 3 BT), and ten - twelve Heralds of Tzeentch, and 3  Fiends of Slaanesh and/or 3 Plague Drones and twenty some horrors  - to buffer your back lines. But really you want LoCs early and often.

It is a great concept Betray - totally broken  - you figured that out right? In essence you are playing with two armies against one. Your opponent will of course target the seers early and relentlessly - but you should produce plenty of daemons (especially if you roll for invisibility) and it will take time to reduce your WC (as tazenrtch heralds and LoCs replenish it anyway).

Now people will say that this no better than the standard daemon summoning list but they miss the point - a spiritseer is cheap per cost of each WC.  You will get a lot of spawned units turn one. That decent round of summoning gets you a core of Daemon summoners.  At that point you can peril away your seer summoners - it no longer matters. You will be constantly replenshing seers with LoCs.        

This just nasty - I really want to try TBH.

Now we have to compare this of course to other summoning lists ... daemon summoning with the relic and fellblade will get you quite a few GDs as well and you have little no chance of perils. Twelve rerolls is huge. The Fellblade is quite a more potent threat than a seer w/ guardians. You can pack at least 9 + WC plus D6 into that list. No not forty but you are assured of a result each turn.

Also the eldar summoning list here ...

2x Farseer Runes of Witnessing Spirit Stone of Anath'Lan Phoenix Gem -- 270 (summoning)
2x Warlock - 70  (conceal/reveal)
3x 5 DA Wave Serpent Scatterlasers  -- 555
3 Windrider Jetbikes Shurikan Cannon-- 61
2x 7 Swooping Hawks -- 224
6 Swooping Hawks -- 96
Wraithknight Wraith Cannons -- 240
2x 3 D-cannons  -- 330

Of course this list has a considerably less WC but you have a lot of threats and the list is not reliant on summoning. It is the icing on the cake - the rest of list does a heck of a lot of damage too. I have played the list above - ghost helms are golden and getting three powers from malefic (psychic focus) will help considerably.

Now we look at a daemon summoning list:
12 Heralds of Tzeentch Lvl 3 1140
6x 11 Pink Horrors 594

Lots of room for portaglyph, grimoire, etc. More WC then the Eldar list - much less likely to perils and 18 units that can cast - hmm. Pick your poison. Now the bad opart - this is not an unbound list as only a primary detachment can take four heralds has been FaQed. All detachments - even allied can now take four heralds.

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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   Mon Nov 03 2014, 15:12

I agree with you, and am not taking anything away from the potency of that fellblade list by saying what I'm about to say. It has strength in other ways, while my list only draws strength purely from summoning. I think the 20 spiritseer list will summon about 2-3 times as much as the fellblade list for 3 reasons:

1. It has 4 times the amount of warp charge. Even with rerolls, that's over double the ammount of dice rolls, which equals basically double the successes if we both roll average.

2. It has a higher upside potential. If I roll well, I can have up to 43 successful dice. If you roll well, the most you can ever hit is the 9 successes or w/e.

3. It has disposable models. With several of the summoning powers requiring that something else die, this is important. Many of your models are too expensive not to cringe when you kill them.

I'd likely go for 2 major things starting out. If I had 46 warp charge, I'd throw 16 dice at getting 2 lords of change with 2 spiritseers. Pretty solid chance of success with that many dice. I'd use the remaining 30 dice, 2 at a time on the remaining spiritseers to summon Heralds. With a 75% success rate because of using 2 dice, that will summon 10 Heralds. So, first turn with my list, 2 Lords of Change and 10 Heralds waltz onto the board.

P.S. Spiritseers cannot take singing spears, though I wish they could.

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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   Mon Nov 03 2014, 15:59

I agree Betray - your list has legs as I m prone to say. It has some obvious weaknesses (hence I would add those four bright lances) but the upside of the list is enormous. It definitely is a contender for a solid summoning list. Now just judging by tournament results, pure daemon summoning lists do not fare well against a tac list. There are reasons for this  - pure daemon summoning lists have less casters and rely more on troops than creating GDs. This list of yours (and the fellblade list as well) look to create FMCs - a different approach. Also your list has enough redundancy to absorb the seer casualties - they only need to cast two turns - that is amazing - to stay on track.

It is prudent to remember that on turns two and thre - depending on the numbers you have spawned you can start going for bolts of change as well - this along with the bright lances just add more relevant threats to the table. Two or three bolts plus the BLs all separate units makes prioritizing quite a task.

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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   Mon Nov 03 2014, 16:40

A request from Tainly - create a broken or at least competive 1500 SoB list

St. Celestine: 115
Cannoness: Sword of Admonition, Plasma Pistol, Rsarius: 125

4x 5 Battle Sisters: Heavy Flamer, Meltagun, Veteran Superior: 450

6 Exorcists: 810

The list is about Celestine and the exorcists of course. You will average 18 STr 8 AP 1 missile shots per turn. Celestine is there just to tar pit and be a nuisance. The sisters can walk to objectives.

As points increase add Immolators (not rhinos) and possibly some Seraphim. Should do the trick nicely at 1750- 1850

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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   Mon Nov 03 2014, 16:53

thanks, I'm going to try this! Will need to proxy a bit though. Will let you know how I get on.
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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   Mon Nov 03 2014, 22:31

actually the exorcists average 21 shots.

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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   Tue Nov 04 2014, 01:00

Pursunt to our discussion on Nids and FW ...

1850 Disruptive Nids

2x Flyrant - Wings, 2x TL-Brainleech Devourers, Electroshock Grubs 480

2 Malanthrope 170

2x 3 Rippers - Deepstrike 90
2x 1 Mucolid 30

Harpy - TL-Heavy Venom Cannon 145
Hive Crone 155
Dimachaeron - Tyrannocyte - 5 Venom Cannons 300

Tyrannofex - Acid Spray, Electroshock Grubs - Tyrannocyte - 5 Barbed Stranglers 285
Sporocyst - 5 Venom Cannons 100

Bastion - Comms Relay 95

So the whole point of the list is to reserve a good portion of your force and then drop in and really disrupt your opponents deployment plans. Between infiltrating sporocysts, DSing Dima and Tyranno and Mucolids and Harpies raining spores and your other FMCs, nothing on the board is really safe. It is important to note that spore mines do not yield KPs ever.

5 Venom Cannons, hitting 1.5 models apiece (best case scenario) so 7.5 hits, 6.3 wounds, about 2 models dead.
5 Stranglers, hitting 2.5 models apiece (best case scenario) so 12.5 hits, 6.25 wounds, about 2 models dead and a pinning check.
So if you need more light AT (Venom Cannons) or more pinning weapons (Stranglers). Some Tyranid lists don't need help against light armor, but do need help assaulting into terrain - pinning weapons win. A mix is nice.

The malanthrope is a buffed venomthrope - same shrouded rules but +1S/T, +2W, Save is two better, and add synapse. So T5, W4 folks. They also grant Preferred Enemy to everything in their synapse range if they're involved in a combat where you destroy a unit. It has poison 2+ and can take out infantry and vehicles and has regeneration - all for 85 points. Two please.

The tyrannocyte is a nid drop pod but does not automatically arrive turn one - hence the bastion. It is an MC with the ability to drop in with either one MC or 20 infantry. Here it used for the dimachaeron. They also cannot run or charge despite having 3 attacks. It is T5 with six wounds and a 3+ save though. It also has instinctive fire … fire all weapons at the closest enemy. It does not take an FoC slot.

The mucolid spore cluster is like spore mine clusterss but STr 8 AP3 (add +1 Str for each mine in the cluster). They are troops - they can hit zooming monstrous creatures or swooping flyers - 45 pts for three! So they DS and they are shrouded T3 with W3 (no save), fearless and float about like spore mines. Pretty cool. Amazing  - AT/AI/AA - of course like spore mine clusters they move only 3" and can only charge half the rolled distance. Still ... why not include one unit - who is going to get near them?

The Dimachaeron is a fast attack choice for the Tyranid Army, and it has a Stat line of WS8, BS3, S6, T6, W6, I6, A5, Ld10, and a 3+ save. The unit type is Monstrous Creature (Leaper). It has feed and rampage. Its talons are melee weapons that are +1S, AP2, and have the special rule of Spine-maw Strike. What Spine-maw brings to the table is one extra initiative 1 attack if the controlling player rolls any To Hit rolls of 6. This attack can be made against any infantry units that do not have the extremely bulky special rule and is resolved at +4S, AP1, and caused instant death and Digestion Spine. Digestion Spine gives the Dimachaeron a number of plasm tokens equal to the number of wounds the model removed had which is a FNP $+ per token. Sickle Claws are resolved at the users strength and on a To Wound roll of 4+, they cause instant death. So he has 5 attacks base, plus one for the second close combat weapon, plus D3 attacks for Rampage, Hammer of Wrath attacks, potentially another attack at initiative one, plus one more for the charge, and finally with feed, he can get another one on the charge. This monster has the potential of 13 attacks on a charge.

The sporocyst is fearless and immobile. It does come armed with five deathspitters though. It is fearless, has infiltrate (very nice), produces a spore mine cluster every shooting phase, a mucolid  (one time only) and increases the synapse range of any synapse creature within six inches by six inches. It is quite tough as well. It is six T5 wounds with a 4+ ave so it will hang around pumping out spores and shooting its deathspitters (15 S5 shots a turn). This unit goes well with the DSing mucolid cluster adding even more mines. It could be a hidden gem - it is so hard to judge. It is a weapons bunker that infiltrates. You want to use it to deny an objective - it sits there pumping out three spores a turn as a buffer, firing off its 15 shots and daring you to attack or come close. It can close off a flank.

So is the list broken - well hardly. But if I am playing nids I am taking malanthropes with 2+ poison and venomthrope abilities plus plus. And the new Nid drop pod is expensive BUT - it carries an MC - it has FIVE venom cannons!

Top two Nid units now:
1. Flyrant
2. Malanthrope

Best Formation: Skyblight

Best Troop: Some swear by hormagants others like MSU rippers - both have their place.

Strangest new unit: Sporocyst

Coolest New Combo:
Tyrannofex, Acid Spray, Electroshock Grubs in Tyrannocyte, 5 Venom Cannons - 285 pts
Dimachaeron in Tyrannocyte, 5 Venom Cannons - 300 pts
Bastion, Comms Realy - 95 pts

I know 685 points, eh. Think about dropping both on the same turn. You will chew up a deployment zone, lol. With four flyers your turn two will get uber nasty.

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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   Tue Nov 04 2014, 17:46

I like that Tyranids are still i nthe conversation after all the doom and gloom people were talking back when the codex dropped. I honestly don't know how many players quit over that codex, but the response was fairly dramatic from a lot of folks and yet I see them winning tournaments or placing highly with their air forces, and lets be honest: it's been Nid Zilla for a long time now. The army REALLY and truly hasn't been a horde army for like ever. Orks are one of the few TRUE hordeish armies left it seems.

I do mourne that in some ways. But on the other hand, there really ISNT another Monster army unless you want to count the Imperial KNights but they are quite different in my opinion. More like really big tanks and very few of them.

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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   Tue Nov 04 2014, 19:29


Nids are now very much in the mix. Very few armies can deal with that many MCs in one turn. Turn two becomes a nightmare for your opponents with the new FW additions. Now I sold my Nids but I was missing all the good new stuff anyway so no matter. But if i had to pick an army that intrigues me now it would be Nids (after my new Tau of course)

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PostSubject: Re: A TDC Blog: strategies , unit analysis, batreps, observations, tactics   Tue Nov 04 2014, 20:36

Speaking of Tau, i figured out how to get enough Carbine guys.  So the Carbine Fire Warriors with Grenades are ready to paint.  

I am really struggling to find the Pathfinders with Rail Rifles and their Drones and the Firesight marksmen etc...  Still working on what to do there but it looks like most of the regular drones for the force are accounted for.  Need to get creative I guess.

Tonight there should be 22 very yellow Fire Warriors on the table.  hehehe. Also am playing a game and will try to get a batrep using them (obviously they wont be completely painted)

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