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 Urien Rakarth as Warord

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Urien Rakarth as Warord   Fri Dec 05 2014, 13:53

Assuming that you're planning to use the Haemonculus Supplement, what do you think of Urien as a Warlord (compared to a Supplement-Haemonculus)?

- Is his extra survivability and Master of Pain worth it over a standard Haemonculus, even with his really crappy Warlord trait?

- How survivable do you find him to be, compared to a standard Haemonculus?

- Are there any other factors (points, wargear, weapons etc.) that make you lean towards one or the other?
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mrmagoo
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PostSubject: Re: Urien Rakarth as Warord   Fri Dec 05 2014, 14:52

He doesn't have to be your warlord. You could always take him and not make him your Warlord. That way the Haemonculus can attempt to get a better warlord trait.

I am planning a complete Haemonculus Supplement and I do plan on using Urien. But not as the Warlord.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Urien Rakarth as Warord   Fri Dec 05 2014, 14:58

@mrmagoo wrote:
He doesn't have to be your warlord.  You could always take him and not make him your Warlord.   That way the Haemonculus can attempt to get a better warlord trait.

I know, but I'm trying to assess the pros and cons of having him as my warlord.
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Talos
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PostSubject: Re: Urien Rakarth as Warord   Fri Dec 05 2014, 15:21

crapy warlordtrait is crapy :p
Remember that any character can be warlord. I have often used a grotesque champion as mine, harder to kill then a heamy.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Urien Rakarth as Warord   Fri Dec 05 2014, 15:27

@Talos wrote:
crapy warlordtrait is crapy :p
Remember that any character can be warlord.

Not worth it then?
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Korwey
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PostSubject: Re: Urien Rakarth as Warord   Fri Dec 05 2014, 15:28

Haemy will often travel with Grots/Engines so Urien T5 is not important unless getting hit by S8 or 9. He indeed is more survivable with FNP 4+, 4++ save and instant IWND. But you might really use some good warlord trait and gamble with the weaker warlord.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Urien Rakarth as Warord   Fri Dec 05 2014, 16:15

@Korwey wrote:
Haemy will often travel with Grots/Engines so Urien T5 is not important unless getting hit by S8 or 9. He indeed is more survivable with FNP 4+, 4++ save and instant IWND. But you might really use some good warlord trait and gamble with the weaker warlord.

Fair enough.

When you guys use a standard Haemonculus as your warlords, do they often live through a game, or not?
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Laughingcarp
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PostSubject: Re: Urien Rakarth as Warord   Fri Dec 05 2014, 20:28

In my experience using a standard Haemy as a warlord usually still works pretty well regarding survivability. But that's due to hiding him in a Dark Artisan or a unit of Grotesques.

Used Urien last night, not as my warlord sadly, but alongside my Succubus in the Grotesquerie. Had decided to roll the warlord trait, got rage, rerolled, got the same trait as Urien lol (was gunning for labyrinthine cunning of course). Playing against Necrons so fear didn't do squat.
But Urien's 4++ with 4+ FNP and IWND let me feel comfortable enough tanking annihilation barge shooting, and 3 rounds of challenge in CC with the Catacomb Command Barge Warscythe Overlord, not to mention three charges worth of overwatch, no problem. He saved piles of wounds that would otherwise have landed on his Grots and survived the game with only 1 wound taken.
But it's his Father of Pain that really shines. I'm planning on using him again because of how much of a force multiplier he is. Having +1 PFP on a Succubus with a unit of Grots resulted in them being able to charge a new opponent each of my turns, starting on T2.

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Urien Rakarth as Warord   Fri Dec 05 2014, 21:52

@Laughingcarp wrote:
In my experience using a standard Haemy as a warlord usually still works pretty well regarding survivability. But that's due to hiding him in a Dark Artisan or a unit of Grotesques.

Well, that's my plan too. Wink

@Laughingcarp wrote:
Used Urien last night, not as my warlord sadly, but alongside my Succubus in the Grotesquerie. Had decided to roll the warlord trait, got rage, rerolled, got the same trait as Urien lol (was gunning for labyrinthine cunning of course). Playing against Necrons so fear didn't do squat.
But Urien's 4++ with 4+ FNP and IWND let me feel comfortable enough tanking annihilation barge shooting, and 3 rounds of challenge in CC with the Catacomb Command Barge Warscythe Overlord, not to mention three charges worth of overwatch, no problem. He saved piles of wounds that would otherwise have landed on his Grots and survived the game with only 1 wound taken.

Hah! Nice.

@Laughingcarp wrote:

But it's his Father of Pain that really shines. I'm planning on using him again because of how much of a force multiplier he is. Having +1 PFP on a Succubus with a unit of Grots resulted in them being able to charge a new opponent each of my turns, starting on T2.

I do want to try him. Thing is, if I use him, I would want him to be my Warlord (both for thematic purposes, and also to make use of his extra survivability). It's just annoying that it's a complete waste of a Warlord trait.

But then, I also find it annoying that I'm not allowed to build a Haemonculus as durable as Urien. Evil or Very Mad
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sweetbacon
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PostSubject: Re: Urien Rakarth as Warord   Fri Dec 05 2014, 22:51

@The Shredder wrote:

But then, I also find it annoying that I'm not allowed to build a Haemonculus as durable as Urien. Evil or Very Mad
[/quote]

You sort of can.  If you give a Haemonculus the Nightmare Doll and Panacea, it will have 4+ FNP and 4+ IWND.  So almost as good as Urien.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Urien Rakarth as Warord   Fri Dec 05 2014, 22:54

@sweetbacon wrote:

You sort of can.  If you give a Haemonculus the Nightmare Doll and Panacea, it will have 4+ FNP and 4+ IWND.  So almost as good as Urien.

Not really. T5 and a 4++ give a lot more survivability.

Perhaps I should rephrase it though - I find it annoying when SCs are given options and rules that cannot be taken be regular HQs.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Urien Rakarth as Warord   Sat Dec 06 2014, 01:47

Standard list, Ancient Evil is better than the bum rap it gets. In a Covens list, it's almost entirely worthless.

I like Rakarth a lot as a character, but not as a warlord. I'd go with one of the other haemmys.

Out of curiosity, Shredder, not to pick a fight, but if all SCs could be duplicated in rules and equipment by generic characters, what would be the reason to take them? They have to have something that makes them unique, don't they?
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Urien Rakarth as Warord   Sat Dec 06 2014, 10:31

@Jimsolo wrote:
Out of curiosity, Shredder, not to pick a fight, but if all SCs could be duplicated in rules and equipment by generic characters, what would be the reason to take them?  They have to have something that makes them unique, don't they?

They would be taken for flavour - for when people actually want to use that character in their army.

NOT because they allow an army build that no ordinary HQ allows
NOT because they have some other ability that no standard HQ is allowed
NOT because they're outright better than their standard counterpart
etc.

Saying that, you could perhaps give them fixed Warlord traits or the like. It could be a reason to take them, albeit a minor one.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Urien Rakarth as Warord   Sat Dec 06 2014, 17:06

Okie doke.  Curiosity sated.  I think I'm not quite all the way there, but I'd at least like a generic HQ that at least somewhat resembles the SC (a Hellion HQ, a pirate HQ, to use defunct SCs as an example).

In any event, thumbs down to Rakarth as Warlord in a Covens list.
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honethedroll
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PostSubject: Re: Urien Rakarth as Warord   Mon Dec 08 2014, 17:23

@Jimsolo wrote:
(a Hellion HQ, a pirate HQ, to use defunct SCs as an example)

Too soon.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Urien Rakarth as Warord   Tue Dec 09 2014, 01:16

@honethedroll wrote:
@Jimsolo wrote:
(a Hellion HQ, a pirate HQ, to use defunct SCs as an example)

Too soon.

Ugh, I know. I have a Duke and a Baron on my shelf, assembled after weeks or months of scrounging spare parts, one literally stained with my own blood. Lol, I laugh to keep from crying.
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