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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Having trouble with knights? Try this.   Mon Dec 01 2014, 07:49

PLEASE IGNORE this post if you know this already or if this has been mentioned before elsewhere.

Take your preferred AT shooting unit option (I like fire dragons but trueborn are great also) and a HQ with blaster or HWG and a WWP. Stick them in a raider with lance.

WWP the raider down so that it is in 2 of the knights facings and preferably without giving it a cover save. After he declares which facing the shield is in, shoot the passengers from the other half as you can choose ANY point on the hull to fire from... simple

The knights shields are useless against this powerful AT unit!

Combined with other AT from ravagers, scourges, etc I have wasted a full HP knight in one turn twice already.

Enjoy! Very Happy
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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: Having trouble with knights? Try this.   Mon Dec 01 2014, 09:09

Excellent mojo there sir!

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DEfan
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PostSubject: Re: Having trouble with knights? Try this.   Mon Dec 01 2014, 09:13

This is a very good post! Thanks alot! My first time up against a Knight was unsuccessful. I jumped up scourge, deep struck a 2nd unit of them and moved jetbikes up but only got 50% on my hit rolls. Those that hit were unfortunately the ones on his chosen armour facing. My opponent then rolled a steady string of 4++ saves and I think I reduced his hull points by 2 in the end. His return volley was...slightly superior.
Fire dragons would have a field day.

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Cavalier
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PostSubject: Re: Having trouble with knights? Try this.   Mon Dec 01 2014, 11:42

Wow awesome insight... I hadn't heard of this trick before... Gotta try this thanks!

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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: Having trouble with knights? Try this.   Mon Dec 01 2014, 13:55

Used it many times to great effect. Fire Dragons, raiders and Knights do not mix!

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Sigmaril
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PostSubject: Re: Having trouble with knights? Try this.   Mon Dec 01 2014, 14:04

You don't need the transport to make it work. I've been doing it with deepstriking scourges. Place the first model on the line between two facings, and you can have two more placed on the same line, then the last scourge has to pick a side, and on the other side you can put an archon with a HWG. That's 4 shots to the side without Ion shield, and 1 shot on the shield side.
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thesaltedwound
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PostSubject: Re: Having trouble with knights? Try this.   Tue Dec 02 2014, 15:44

This is brilliant, I've never played against a Knight, but now I know how! Good job Smile

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Timatron
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PostSubject: Re: Having trouble with knights? Try this.   Wed Dec 03 2014, 20:07

Awesome!
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Mahakala
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PostSubject: Watch 'em squirm...   Thu Jan 29 2015, 02:41

So my local shop recently started the Sanctus Reach campaign that has about 18 players in it. I showed up with a force that I have a couple lists from for situational things (Venoms, Raiders, Archon, Warriors, Reavers, RZWJF, VRB, Dark Artisan, and Scalpel Squadron).  Against my better judgment, I ended up semi-challenging a Knight player to a 1500 pt game. The mission was out of the Hour of the Wolf and called The Hour of Khorne.  Most of the rules didn't apply to us, except for the deployment. The objective of the mission was for him to win, he had to table me, and for me to win, I had to just have one model alive.

But the reason I'm posting is because when I deep struck my Raider with Blaster toting Archon and Warrior right on his facing-intersection line, I was so glad that I had read this thread a few months back. When my shooting phase began and he went to nominate the shield facing, he stared quizzically for a good moment and he then asked, "is this targeting the rear or side?"  When I replied, "Both," he said it was impossible. I explained the tactic, smirked, and apologized. He described the move as "dick" and I said call it what you want.  The funny thing is I didn't even hurt the SOB as he made the saves, but he was so rattled that he conceded in his next turn.  He knew that targeting the two flyers was gonna be tough and I spread out my force making overall targeting difficult for him. But the deep strike tactic p!$$ed him off something fierce!  

Never under estimate the psychological warfare involved... Humans are a weak race.

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Last edited by Mahakala on Thu Jan 29 2015, 03:54; edited 1 time in total
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nexs
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PostSubject: Re: Having trouble with knights? Try this.   Thu Jan 29 2015, 02:51

@Mahakala wrote:
He described the move as "dick" ...
Taking a giant jump robot with a million awesome guns isn't a very nice thing either. Practice what you preach, mr knight-bringer.
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PostSubject: Re: Having trouble with knights? Try this.   Thu Jan 29 2015, 06:48

Awesome suggestion PJ!!!

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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: Having trouble with knights? Try this.   Thu Jan 29 2015, 08:34

@Mahakala wrote:
He described the move as "dick"

Well someone's a sore loser! What he's really meaning is that he wished he'd thought of it/brought something that could deal with it.

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sweetbacon
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PostSubject: Re: Having trouble with knights? Try this.   Thu Jan 29 2015, 13:46

I don't understand why the Knight player was so enraged/frustrated by a perfectly legal, valid tactic that ended up doing no damage(?), to his Knight.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Having trouble with knights? Try this.   Thu Jan 29 2015, 14:03

@Mahakala wrote:
I explained the tactic, smirked, and apologized. He described the move as "dick" and I said call it what you want.  The funny thing is I didn't even hurt the SOB as he made the saves

This has just registered on my sleep-deprived mind. What saves? The whole point of the tactic is that you get to shoot into whichever arc doesn't have a save.

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Mahakala
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PostSubject: Re: Having trouble with knights? Try this.   Thu Jan 29 2015, 14:41

@nexs wrote:
@Mahakala wrote:
He described the move as "dick" ...
Taking a giant jump robot with a million awesome guns isn't a very nice thing either. Practice what you preach, mr knight-bringer.

You mean taking FOUR giant robots...  and they weren't even primed!!  As homies back in the day would say, "Trifling!!"

@sweetbacon wrote:
I don't understand why the Knight player was so enraged/frustrated by a perfectly legal, valid tactic that ended up doing no damage(?), to his Knight.  

You know, I spend a lot of time pondering things like this.  My dearest friend in the world got me into this hobby and I don't think we have ever played and not gotten into some sort of argument.  The great thing is we dissect the game and argument into great detail every single time.  It gives us an opportunity to grow as gamers and as people.  

The fact of the matter is that we intrinsically and vicariously live through our armies.  We get attached.  It's really difficult to watch these minions of yours have cover ignoring templates on top of them every freaking single game you play.  Then you start to add in personal issues and problems and you have a perfect Aetherstorm for hurt feelings and manifestations of those hurt feelings in all sorts of ways.  

The game SHOULD be an escape.  The game SHOULD be fun.  But humans are competitive by nature and coming in second sucks.

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@Mahakala wrote:
I explained the tactic, smirked, and apologized. He described the move as "dick" and I said call it what you want.  The funny thing is I didn't even hurt the SOB as he made the saves

This has just registered on my sleep-deprived mind. What saves? The whole point of the tactic is that you get to shoot into whichever arc doesn't have a save.

Exactly, I realized late last night that he cheated.  Like, straight up cheated.  I was talking with another player about the tactic and he made a roll and out of ignorance and distraction, I didn't catch it.  But I was the one that was "dick," right?

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Rokuro
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PostSubject: Re: Having trouble with knights? Try this.   Thu Jan 29 2015, 15:52

@sweetbacon wrote:
I don't understand why the Knight player was so enraged/frustrated by a perfectly legal, valid tactic that ended up doing no damage(?), to his Knight.  

From my experience, most people who bring Knights expect them to be unstoppable and the equivalent of an "I-win-button". The realization that Knights can be defeated is very frustrating for them.
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Khordajj
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PostSubject: Re: Having trouble with knights? Try this.   Fri Jan 30 2015, 16:33

@sweetbacon wrote:
I don't understand why the Knight player was so enraged/frustrated by a perfectly legal, valid tactic that ended up doing no damage(?), to his Knight.  

True pride comes from effort, not accomplishment. Unfortunately, many people can only can only get satisfaction from winning, not from playing well.
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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: Having trouble with knights? Try this.   Wed Feb 18 2015, 11:10

Ive been meaning to say thanx for all the thanx guys! If I've helped any of my dark kin i'm very pleased!  Very Happy

@Rokuro wrote:

From my experience, most people who bring Knights expect them to be unstoppable and the equivalent of an "I-win-button". The realization that Knights can be defeated is very frustrating for them.

Yeah I feel this!

Recently I had time to play 2 games at my local in one evening, doesn't happen often unfortunately. In both games my wwp, hwg archon and 6 fire dragons in a raider used this tactic and single handed put down a knight! In both games! I was just rolling hot. I went on to win both games convincingly

Afterwards a friendly debate erupted about if it was even worth taking a knight vs me and my DE. Im lucky in that my local has mostly good natured but competitive players who agreed that there was nothing "cheesy" about my anti-knight tactic.

However a couple of knight players (one of whom I had just played) seemed really upset. One of them was heard to mutter "DE are not MEANT to be able to kill knights so easily". lol! Razz Cool
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PostSubject: Re: Having trouble with knights? Try this.   Sat Feb 21 2015, 00:25

@Painjunky wrote:

However a couple of knight players (one of whom I had just played) seemed really upset. One of them was heard to mutter "DE are not MEANT to be able to kill knights so easily". lol! Razz Cool

Well done sir.
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Bleaksoul Brethren
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PostSubject: Re: Having trouble with knights? Try this.   Sat Feb 21 2015, 06:51

It was very easy to kill knights in old dex just charge wytches with haywire into them and watch them cry.
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pehldog63
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PostSubject: Re: Having trouble with knights? Try this.   Sat Feb 21 2015, 11:30

My brother and I have a team tournament today. My brother plays eldar. We are praying we go against a knight today because we have this tatic in mind. Thanks for sharing this advice. Based on responses I guess if we do go against a knight we won't be getting the sportsmanship award.
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Rokuro
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PostSubject: Re: Having trouble with knights? Try this.   Sat Feb 21 2015, 12:37

@Bleaksoul Brethren wrote:
It was very easy to kill knights in old dex just charge wytches with haywire into them and watch them cry.

FIRE WARRIORS of all units can still do this. While I'm pretty sure Tau are meant to be able to kill Knights rather easily, they are definitely not meant to do it THAT way!
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Erebus
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PostSubject: Re: Having trouble with knights? Try this.   Sat Feb 21 2015, 14:54

@pehldog63 wrote:
I guess if we do go against a knight we won't be getting the sportsmanship award.
Hey, neither will the Knight player.

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Shbur
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PostSubject: Re: Having trouble with knights? Try this.   Mon Feb 23 2015, 17:48

It's probably because I've never played against Knights and don't understand how they work, but I'm somewhat confused. In this scenario, are there multiple knights and just 1 gun boat?

So you deep strike down in between 2 knights (this is how I'm reading it). This way you have 1 knight on both your port AND starboard. What if he just declares the facing of the knights so that one knight protects its left and the other projects its right? This way he's project from your gun boat on both knights.

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PostSubject: Re: Having trouble with knights? Try this.   Mon Feb 23 2015, 18:07

no the idea here is that there is one (or more) knights, however you position your gunboat in such a manner as to be in multiple arcs of one knight. For example, having your raider positioned tangentially, with the center at approx 1:30. This way, the tail of the raider will be near 12:00 (assume rear), and the tip of the raider will be near 3:00 (assume left-hand-side). Since the knight's shield can only protect one side and is declared prior to your shooting, you are able to take your measure for shooting from either the tip or the tail once the shield location is declared.
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