HomeDark Eldar WikiDark Eldar ResourcesNull CityFAQUsergroupsRegisterLog in

Share | 
 

 The Crunch!!!! Move - The Bloody Shock Prow (and Chain Snares probably) - ON EDITION

Go down 
AuthorMessage
Eldur
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 263
Join date : 2011-12-08

PostSubject: The Crunch!!!! Move - The Bloody Shock Prow (and Chain Snares probably) - ON EDITION   Mon Nov 24 2014, 15:25

I'm back!

And I've found a new powerful weapon in our hands that I didn't knew about before: the Shock Prow!!!!!

I was just reading 7th edition rules before playing again with my beloved dark kin and their new codex. There's two things I always do when reading manuals: 1) fall asleep like grandpa Simpson and 2) search for new tactical tools and gambits to exploit...

And in the Tank Shock descrition, there it is stated how units are forced to move out from a Tank Shocking vehicle that ends his move above said unit, and there it says that models which cannot move staying at least1" away from the vehicle AND staying on the board AND mantaining unit coherence, are removed from play without any save. Woooot! If we add that no movement is allowed through friendly models or less than 1" away from enemy models, then we have a nasty way to decimate and even finish non-vehicle units.

Well, we and every army with Tank Shock. But DE Raiders offer better mobility to prepare a Tank Shock Trap (they're skimmers after all) and their shape allows them to perform well while moving through -and bloodily over- the enemy lines. And last: we have the WWP. BUT FIRST LETS GET STARTED




INSTRUCTIONS AND TIPS FOR THE. CRUNCH!!!! MOVE

- To crunch models (remove them without saves, FnP remains available), Tank Shock them finishing your move above the models you want to erase, so that you force breaking up unit coherency or impeding them to move because of near friendly/enemy units and/or table edge/impassable terrain.

- You may need to prepare your Crunch!!!! move  by moving other vehicles/units in a proper way to force models to be displaced were you want in order to achieve said conditions.

- You may need to make multiple Tank Shocks to a achieve a proper Crunch!!!! move. It risks two or more Death orGlory attacks to be surpased. I recommend just two, three wont be necessary if you have a third wall or unit to press the unit against.

- Take into account the best weapons available for a Death or Glory! attack in response to your Tank Shock, calculate the odds of failure in order to prepare a backup Tank Shock or not try it at all. Risk vs opportunity against dangerous/valuable/tough-as-nails targets must be weighed.

- Units that fall back against Tank Shock won't be crushed but will become inoffensive.

- It works with near invulnerable units like seer councils or Invisibility Deathstars.

- Remember take some backup Raiders with Shock Prow or Venoms with Chain Snares (valuable against Death or Glory for their 5++!).

- Fearless becomes a handicap for units against this (which is great). This could help you to mitigate their invulnerability against your Fear grenades or Fear bomb (TGL+AoP+armour of misery etc).

- Use your WWP raider or units as part of the "bread" or wall to enclose target units.


- IMPORTANT If you think this move is not just legal - I made sure myself but you're free to reread the rules involved (see below) -, but fluffy and fun to have as a resource in all battles, spread the word (or link here). It's not an Ace you keep for yourself, that'd be cheating!





Example #1:

Some WG on the board...

Image1



I used them but imagine they may be anything like termies, necron wraiths or a seer council, or someone you'd like to splat under your car in real life. They are in a standard formation in this case (could be 2" away too... didnt measure, too lazy).

So you are less than 12" away with your gunboats because splinter racks or only by chance, or just because you were in the (murderous) mood and wanted to try if this could work and positioned the right way the last turn.

Image2



What you do with the first raiders (the bread in the burguer) is this...

Image3


And here comes the meat...

Image4


Notice that I left one of them out of the way of my tank shock, protected by the "bread". The rest are now out of unit coherence with him, and rules wise, they become ketchup.

Image 5



Example #2!!!!!

Same kind of troop, different formation (straight line)

Image 1


So you start by sandwiching the to-be-survivors (so yeah you can "snip" characters with your whole Raider. Imagine him as the  figurehead of your spaceboat, hee hee)

Image2


(Note: I could've positioned the models to leave just one protected by the "bread" raiders, but the raiders didnt fit into my improvised scenery so I left it this way as if they actually were near board edge)

And the funny move.

Image3



Again, displaced models that break coherency get impaled by your shock prow. Ouch. The ones out of coherence but not displaced are saved.

Image4


And here comes Johny!

Image 5



Example#3

So a unit deep stroke (is this the correct spelling for this?) between your lines. And they have a good inv save or whatever. Just run them over like you don't care. "Oops! Didn't see them! Oh, they had Invisibility and Rolling Eyes  just got in my way? Not my fault then".

Image1


First you do the first two faces of the triangle..

Image2


And then you...

Image3


Chain snares!!!!!


Oh wait, they could stop the venom?

Image4



This is better. Totally worth it.


Ok I just realised this is much easier than I expected!!  Example #4!!


Here we see Asurmen in the worst possible unit formation...



And with just one boat...



Basically, if you manage to divide the squad, the ones you run into are dead. With our slim boat, it should be easy to divide squads!!

What if they are in a more intelligent formation?



Then you need two raiders!

First...


Second!


... But thats 2 Death or Glory that you must survive, so it's really hard to achieve.






ABOUT RULES - if you want to assess game legality

The rules involved around this tactical tool (or just game mechanic) are:

(40k Rulebook 7th edition)

- Vehicles -> Tanks -> Tank Shock (whole mechanics explained)

- Movement -> Unit Coherence (about unit coherence - and coherence breaking - being a unit status rather than a model status, which is needed to better know how to achieve the crunch conditions).

- Special Rules -> Feel no Pain (only invalidated by Instant Death and Destroyer rules, so valid against Remove from Play effects)



(To be continued... With more tips and examples if requested or needed... let me know your impressions or prove that I'm really wrong so I won't waste my time and yours as well)


Last edited by Eldur on Thu Nov 27 2014, 21:07; edited 6 times in total (Reason for editing : completion of the article (still uncomplete))
Back to top Go down
The_Burning_Eye
Trueborn
avatar

Posts : 2501
Join date : 2012-01-16
Location : Rutland - UK

PostSubject: Re: The Crunch!!!! Move - The Bloody Shock Prow (and Chain Snares probably) - ON EDITION   Mon Nov 24 2014, 16:41

It's a neat trick if you can pull it off, but not a srategy to rely on in my opinion, not least of which because of grenades!

_________________
Tan? You're joking, I'm a gamer, you're lucky I'm wearing deodorant!

My Blog - The Burning Eye Blog (check it out - comments always welcome)

My Project Log - Visions of the Burning Eye

My Gaming Log - Chronicles of the Burning Eye

My Club - MAD Wargaming

My Fluff - Kabal of the Burning Eye, Cult of the Shadowed Blade and Coven of Distorted Perfection
Back to top Go down
http://theburningeye.blogspot.com
doriii
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 251
Join date : 2013-04-19
Location : durr

PostSubject: Re: The Crunch!!!! Move - The Bloody Shock Prow (and Chain Snares probably) - ON EDITION   Tue Nov 25 2014, 02:49

i like the trick but, im quoting the rule:

these models must be moved out of the way by the shortest distance, leaving at least 1" between them and the vehicle whilst maintaining unit coherency and staying on the board

what is the shortest distance, and is there a cap on that distance ?
can they move 6 inches or forever inches ?
Back to top Go down
aurynn
Incubi


Posts : 1626
Join date : 2013-04-23

PostSubject: Re: The Crunch!!!! Move - The Bloody Shock Prow (and Chain Snares probably) - ON EDITION   Tue Nov 25 2014, 14:24

Its not that easy to pull off. Also tankshocking units with Krak grenades might as well turn this into a sour business. Jink does not work against Death or Glory attacks. Its good to know and keep in mind, but as The Burning Eye said - nothing to rely on. You will have better results with shooting the said unit with Torment Launchers.
Back to top Go down
Eldur
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 263
Join date : 2011-12-08

PostSubject: Re: The Crunch!!!! Move - The Bloody Shock Prow (and Chain Snares probably) - ON EDITION   Wed Nov 26 2014, 11:17

Edited! I added some examples. Please comment and tell us if you try it!

Just realized that Wave Serpents are the best suited for this, because of serpent shields... Man, they'll be even more hated by everyone. Hooray for deldar armies!!!

_________________
Archon ÐЖѦXΛI: Let's go outside... and wipe out an entire civilization in a feast of murder and pain.

Eldur project log for Dark Eldar and Eldar
Back to top Go down
Khordajj
Hellion
avatar

Posts : 68
Join date : 2014-11-01

PostSubject: Re: The Crunch!!!! Move - The Bloody Shock Prow (and Chain Snares probably) - ON EDITION   Wed Nov 26 2014, 20:29

Oh god... the Crunch rules just make absolutely no sense. For such a potentially powerful rule, they really f$%*!d up the wording.

Because of this ambiguity, I think you would be hard-pressed to pull it off in a pick-up game. You and your friends would have to come up with some house rules for it. I think the most likely thing that's going to happen is people will hate you for trying to bend the rules.

Secondly, using Raiders for Tank Shocking is risky business. There are a tons of units that can Death or Glory it effectively. Also, taking Raiders specifically for Tank Shocking is very point-inefficient. Even if you just give your Raiders Prows for the off-chance you might use them, you lose the ability to disembark or shoot when you Tank Shock, so the units inside are wasted and suddenly within the enemy's kill zone.

For these reasons I don't think you shouldn't rely on getting Crunch results. You shouldn't even really expect for it to happen at all. It's just a fun thing to do when the opportunity presents itself.


@aurynn wrote:
Its not that easy to pull off.
Depends how you interpret it.
Back to top Go down
Laughingcarp
Wych
avatar

Posts : 562
Join date : 2013-09-03
Location : The insane asylum of the universe

PostSubject: Re: The Crunch!!!! Move - The Bloody Shock Prow (and Chain Snares probably) - ON EDITION   Wed Nov 26 2014, 21:16

@Khordajj wrote:
you lose the ability to disembark or shoot when you Tank Shock, so the units inside are wasted and suddenly within the enemy's kill zone.

Actually you don't lose the ability to shoot, just the ability to embark or disembark.
Still definitely risky 'cause our shockers are so papery and the opportunity for a successful Death or Glory attack is bad.
That said, vs Marines a krak grenade only has an 11.1% chance to explode the Raider, or a 5.6% to destroy a ravager. And there's only .33 pens (.16 vs ravagers) meaning the likeliness of an immobilized or crew stunned result is low.

_________________
I dedicate these deaths to Odin Allfather, Spearshaker, One Eye.
Fleet Shadowmaker - Kabal of the Dying Sun; Cult of Marrow Excised; Coven of Lambent Hunger
Sons of the Last Breath - Chaos Space Marines
Host of Shattered Purity - Chaos Daemons
Back to top Go down
Khordajj
Hellion
avatar

Posts : 68
Join date : 2014-11-01

PostSubject: Re: The Crunch!!!! Move - The Bloody Shock Prow (and Chain Snares probably) - ON EDITION   Thu Nov 27 2014, 08:25

@Laughingcarp wrote:
@Khordajj wrote:
you lose the ability to disembark or shoot when you Tank Shock, so the units inside are wasted and suddenly within the enemy's kill zone.

Actually you don't lose the ability to shoot, just the ability to embark or disembark.
If you move more than 6" the occupants can't shoot. How often do you Tank Shock less than 6"?
Back to top Go down
Vasara
Incognito assault marine
avatar

Posts : 1160
Join date : 2012-08-22
Location : Vantaa

PostSubject: Re: The Crunch!!!! Move - The Bloody Shock Prow (and Chain Snares probably) - ON EDITION   Thu Nov 27 2014, 08:31

Snap shots are allowed.

_________________
New Dark Eldar in Tournaments: Wins: 17 Draws: 2 Losses: 8
ETC 2013 DE/Eldar player (4th)
ETC 2014 Coach (16th)
ETC 2015 Captain, Eldar/DE (10th)
Painting blog
Back to top Go down
Laughingcarp
Wych
avatar

Posts : 562
Join date : 2013-09-03
Location : The insane asylum of the universe

PostSubject: Re: The Crunch!!!! Move - The Bloody Shock Prow (and Chain Snares probably) - ON EDITION   Thu Nov 27 2014, 10:51

And snap shots in rapid-fire range should land a few hits at least. Useful when hopefully a chunk of the unit has been removed from the tank shock, or if they're falling back.

_________________
I dedicate these deaths to Odin Allfather, Spearshaker, One Eye.
Fleet Shadowmaker - Kabal of the Dying Sun; Cult of Marrow Excised; Coven of Lambent Hunger
Sons of the Last Breath - Chaos Space Marines
Host of Shattered Purity - Chaos Daemons
Back to top Go down
The_Burning_Eye
Trueborn
avatar

Posts : 2501
Join date : 2012-01-16
Location : Rutland - UK

PostSubject: Re: The Crunch!!!! Move - The Bloody Shock Prow (and Chain Snares probably) - ON EDITION   Thu Nov 27 2014, 11:07

I've managed 7+ hits using snap shots with the splinter racks, so certainly not an insignificant amount (actually, if you've got a full complement on board the raider and splinter racks then you should average nearly 6 hits with snap shots)

_________________
Tan? You're joking, I'm a gamer, you're lucky I'm wearing deodorant!

My Blog - The Burning Eye Blog (check it out - comments always welcome)

My Project Log - Visions of the Burning Eye

My Gaming Log - Chronicles of the Burning Eye

My Club - MAD Wargaming

My Fluff - Kabal of the Burning Eye, Cult of the Shadowed Blade and Coven of Distorted Perfection
Back to top Go down
http://theburningeye.blogspot.com
Eldur
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 263
Join date : 2011-12-08

PostSubject: Re: The Crunch!!!! Move - The Bloody Shock Prow (and Chain Snares probably) - ON EDITION   Thu Nov 27 2014, 17:20

Thanks for the comments!

@Khordaj: yeah at first it may seem powerful, but if you take into account the Death or Glory bonus to autohit with either a shooting or a combat weapon, and the fact that you need to accomplish any o f these: take away last hull point, pen+stun, pen+immobilize or pen+explode (so not only explode), and that the previous turn you were already into 12" range at least in the enemy shooting phase (unless he run to your tank, dumbydumb), then it seems powerful but predictable and balanced

EDIT:. Oh and Feel no Pain is available!!!!!!

I think this is the kind of thing that is written because of fluff (hey land f**** riders can ram into other tanks and wreck them, why not effectively crush against foot soldiers?) but we didnt take into account before. In real life, would you stop your Land Raider Crusader (should you had one) before a unit of genestealers and shoot them, or would you run into them with your bomb-proof metal box? I choose run and shoot them. Thats the difference between tanks and artillery: tanks crush things bellow them. Just my opinion! I could had it wrong.

The difference is wether you have a Land Raider, a Wave Serpent, or you are dark eldar. The former are quite safe against Death or Glory. Me, as a DE, I just play for the carnage, so I couldnt care less about losing my paper boat if the show requires it!!!!! So I'll try it.

But before that, as a player before a fluffy general (and a good guy bfore a tricky treacherous eldar), I'll show my discovery to my friends so they can try it too (and be warned beforehand) so we can play without problems.

Whoah that is a wall of text!  Sorry just had to explain my point of view.

_________________
Archon ÐЖѦXΛI: Let's go outside... and wipe out an entire civilization in a feast of murder and pain.

Eldur project log for Dark Eldar and Eldar
Back to top Go down
Eldur
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 263
Join date : 2011-12-08

PostSubject: Re: The Crunch!!!! Move - The Bloody Shock Prow (and Chain Snares probably) - ON EDITION   Thu Nov 27 2014, 20:35

EDITED THE OP

Added instructions and tips, as well as rules references in the case of doubt for RAW/RAI discussions or anything.

Please tell me if you want to try it!!! Thanks for the feedback, guys!!!

@doriii shortest distance would be 1" next to the tank shocking vehicle, in the facing much closer to the original position of the model. Unless that position involves breaking unit coherence or moving into a friendly unit or less than 1" of an enemy model or going out the board edge. In that cases, move to a legal position 1" away from the vehicle or if not possible crush the model. What I don't know is that if the model survives via FnP, where do I put him? Maybe Remove from Play can't be FnP'ed at all...

_________________
Archon ÐЖѦXΛI: Let's go outside... and wipe out an entire civilization in a feast of murder and pain.

Eldur project log for Dark Eldar and Eldar
Back to top Go down
Khordajj
Hellion
avatar

Posts : 68
Join date : 2014-11-01

PostSubject: Re: The Crunch!!!! Move - The Bloody Shock Prow (and Chain Snares probably) - ON EDITION   Fri Nov 28 2014, 01:23

First off, a vehicle must move in a straight line until it touches a model in the unit, the unit then takes a morale test, and then the tank continues moving until it reaches its final destination. A vehicle may still Tank Shock even if it has no target, and this is the only method which allows the vehicle to end within 1" of an enemy unit. The rules outright say you may not Tank Shock by pivoting. So you can't wheel around to get the best Crunch possible. Look at your pictures again. Look at any vehicle that Tank Shocked. That vehicle could have only come in from that exact angle. Getting a perfect Crunch is very difficult to do. You have to know where your opponent's unit is going to be a turn in advance, you have to know how his unit is going to be positioned, and then you have to move your vehicles in such a way that they can perfectly pincer his entire unit (since they can only move in straight lines).

Using Raiders and Venoms to Tank Shock is great if you can pull it off, but expecting to use this tactic also requires you to consider who you put in your vehicles. Tank Shocking is most conducive if you either leave your transports empty, OR have a unit that's specialized for close quarters. For instance, you shouldn't be taking gunboats (roughly 180 pts), because if you're using 2-3 of them to Crunch an enemy unit, you're foregoing 230-345 points worth of shooting to Snapshot with.

I'm not saying you should never Crunch your enemies, I'm just saying it's incredibly difficult to pull off. It's not always efficient, it can be dangerous (imagine if you use 3 loaded transports to kill a unit and it just Falls Back -- wasted movement, wasted shooting, wasted assault, and suddenly you're in charge/rapid fire range), it's not always going to happen (e.g. Fall Back), and in my opinion, it's not amazing unless you're playing against an opponent that doesn't even know that there are rules for Tank Shocking past "take a morale test."

All this being said. It's another tool everyone should know about. It should also, however, be used with great care. You should know a lot of the nuances of these rules before you attempt to use it in a game. It's very difficult to pull off amazing Crunches. It's also very easy just to snipe a few dudes with (as your pictures pointed out how easy it would be to snipe Asurmen).

Just remember to play by the rules. Crunch is easy to pull off, but it's not always the smartest thing to do, and killing entire units is going to be incredibly difficult if you're not cheating.

@Eldur wrote:

Whoah that is a wall of text!  Sorry just had to explain my point of view.
Step up.


Last edited by Khordajj on Fri Nov 28 2014, 01:29; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
Eldur
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 263
Join date : 2011-12-08

PostSubject: Re: The Crunch!!!! Move - The Bloody Shock Prow (and Chain Snares probably) - ON EDITION   Fri Nov 28 2014, 01:51

Thanks Kordajj! I may use your points in the article, or simply quote you there if you don't mind Wink

Right, the Tank Shock is not properly done in the images.. I did the examples in the morning while eating my breakfast so they were mostly a first approach to see if the concept worked fine. I'll redo them so the movement of the raiders is more clear!!!

And yup, killing a whole unit won't happen except for the most extreme cases.

_________________
Archon ÐЖѦXΛI: Let's go outside... and wipe out an entire civilization in a feast of murder and pain.

Eldur project log for Dark Eldar and Eldar
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: The Crunch!!!! Move - The Bloody Shock Prow (and Chain Snares probably) - ON EDITION   

Back to top Go down
 
The Crunch!!!! Move - The Bloody Shock Prow (and Chain Snares probably) - ON EDITION
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
THE DARK CITY :: 

COMMORRAGH TACTICA

 :: Drukhari Tactics
-
Jump to: