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 Proposed Rules - Taro Nagae

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Saintspirit
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PostSubject: Proposed Rules - Taro Nagae   Sun May 22 2011, 21:56

Taro Nagae - 140 points
WS7 BS7 S3 T3 W3 I7 A4 Ld10 Sv4+

Unit Type: Infantry.

Skystriker Expert - One unit of Scourges may be taken as a Troops choice in an army which includes Taro Nagae.

Wargear: Ghostplate armour, phantasm grenade launcher, glowing blade (counts as an agoniser), shadow field.

Conflagrator: This pistol, sometimes called "Kianifie" which litterary means "Flame of Darkness", was crafted by Taro himself soon after he had seized contol of the kabal. It fires small crystals glowing with heat from dark flames, which when in contact with living matter sets the foe ablaze, often also burning those around him. It has this profile:

Range: 12" S: 4 Ap: 4 Type: Pistol

If the target is wounded, centre the small blast marker over it. The wounded model will immidiately take a S7 Ap2 hit, and all other models touched by the marker will take a S3 Ap5 hit.
Commentary: These rules are to represent how the crystal itself does not penetrate the harder armour kinds well, but should it do, the fire comes from inside the armour and thus cannot be stopped. As you may have guessed, Taro's pistol is quite inspired from the old Stinger.

Special rules: Fleet, Night Vision, Power from Pain, Independent Character.

The Old Grudge: Taro holds a burning hatred for his brother and his new kin. He has the Prefered Enemy - Eldar special rule, and confers this to any unit he joins.

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shamroll wrote:
Dang! I was hoping Tyranids followed the Pokemon naming idea. A big Carnifex running around just yelling "Carnifex! Carni-Carnifex!" followed by a squad of termagants all saying "Termagant" to each other.
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Todo13
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PostSubject: Re: Proposed Rules - Taro Nagae   Mon May 23 2011, 00:10

Does he have wings?
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Saintspirit
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PostSubject: Re: Proposed Rules - Taro Nagae   Mon May 23 2011, 01:05

No, he hasn't. However he is an expert of skyborn tactics and the kabal employs several Scourges.

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shamroll wrote:
Dang! I was hoping Tyranids followed the Pokemon naming idea. A big Carnifex running around just yelling "Carnifex! Carni-Carnifex!" followed by a squad of termagants all saying "Termagant" to each other.
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Todo13
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PostSubject: Re: Proposed Rules - Taro Nagae   Mon May 23 2011, 01:29

I like the nod to the old stinger and troop scourges sound very useful
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Krovin-Rezh
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PostSubject: Re: Proposed Rules - Taro Nagae   Mon May 23 2011, 05:16

Cool idea. The problem with the Stinger was always wound allocation. Since the owning player can place the blast marker over any model he wishes, it usually ends up being in the worst place. To make it more useful as a weapon, perhaps it should work something like this...

Add the Instant Death special rule to it's profile.
"If the conflagrator causes an unsaved wound, it immediately causes an additional D6 SX APX hits, where S and AP are equal to the majority T and Sv of the target unit. These additional hits cannot be triggered more than once per shot, and they do not cause instant death."

Notice I brought back the old equivalent S/AP. This was the coolest feature of the stinger IMO. S3 AP5 does very little damage, as anyone who had to deal with the old splinter weapons will attest. Also, I took the opportunity to fix an issue where the stinger could be interpreted to continue on like a chain reaction.

Also, an Archon with all the other gear already costs 145. Taro Nagae should probably cost 165.
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Saintspirit
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PostSubject: Re: Proposed Rules - Taro Nagae   Mon May 23 2011, 05:30

@Krovin-Rezh wrote:
Cool idea. The problem with the Stinger was always wound allocation. Since the owning player can place the blast marker over any model he wishes, it usually ends up being in the worst place. To make it more useful as a weapon, perhaps it should work something like this...

Add the Instant Death special rule to it's profile.
"If the conflagrator causes an unsaved wound, it immediately causes an additional D6 SX APX hits, where S and AP are equal to the majority T and Sv of the target unit. These additional hits cannot be triggered more than once per shot, and they do not cause instant death."

Notice I brought back the old equivalent S/AP. This was the coolest feature of the stinger IMO. S3 AP5 does very little damage, as anyone who had to deal with the old splinter weapons will attest. Also, I took the opportunity to fix an issue where the stinger could be interpreted to continue on like a chain reaction.
That problem came a bit into my mind too, I do like your idea. However I do not think the S and Ap should be equivalent as it isn't the exploding foe that hurts them, it is the flames, so how about this?

Range: 12" S: 4 Ap: 4 Type: Pistol

Any model wounded by the Conflagrator suffer from Instant Death, regardless of its Toughness. If the Conflagrator causes an unsaved wound, it immediately causes an additional D6 S4 AP5 hits to the unit. These additional hits cannot be triggered more than once per shot and they do not cause instant death.

Quote :
Also, an Archon with all the other gear already costs 145. Taro Nagae should probably cost 165.
I dunno, Malys for example has things I'd say should make her cost more than 130. Or am I wrong?

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shamroll wrote:
Dang! I was hoping Tyranids followed the Pokemon naming idea. A big Carnifex running around just yelling "Carnifex! Carni-Carnifex!" followed by a squad of termagants all saying "Termagant" to each other.
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Xelkireth
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PostSubject: Re: Proposed Rules - Taro Nagae   Mon May 23 2011, 07:25

I don't think Taro should have a limit of one squad of scourges. That's smacks of something like the old 3rd and 4th edition codices. Taro should unlock scourges as a troop choice. I was actually going to write my own scourge character and you beat me to it.

I like the revised pistol. No problems there. I think your points are fine. 140 is good. Look at the Other Archon type characters from the codex.
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Krovin-Rezh
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PostSubject: Re: Proposed Rules - Taro Nagae   Mon May 23 2011, 07:54

@Saintspirit wrote:
That problem came a bit into my mind too, I do like your idea. However I do not think the S and Ap should be equivalent as it isn't the exploding foe that hurts them, it is the flames, so how about this?

Range: 12" S: 4 Ap: 4 Type: Pistol

Any model wounded by the Conflagrator suffer from Instant Death, regardless of its Toughness. If the Conflagrator causes an unsaved wound, it immediately causes an additional D6 S4 AP5 hits to the unit. These additional hits cannot be triggered more than once per shot and they do not cause instant death.
Sounds fair enough. It just won't be a major reason to take the character then, which is fine since Scourges as troops is reason enough.
Quote :

I dunno, Malys for example has things I'd say should make her cost more than 130. Or am I wrong?
Malys=
Archon
Djinn blade
4++ (20 pts on a T3 model)
That's 100 points, leaving 30 points for the precog and crystal heart abilities. Sounds about right, honestly.

My suggestion to up the cost was based on improving the conflagrator. Since you want to keep it less powerful, I could see him being only 155.
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Xelkireth
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PostSubject: Re: Proposed Rules - Taro Nagae   Mon May 23 2011, 08:09

155pts is ridiculous. He has no special abilities that alter game play like Malys does. 145, to be honest is at the high end of the points spectrum.
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PostSubject: Re: Proposed Rules - Taro Nagae   Mon May 23 2011, 08:20

Quote :
He has no special abilities that alter game play like Malys does.
That would be taking scourges as troops then, I guess.

Ok - adapting what you say, alongside tiny upgrades for his gun (I figured seeing someone in your unit combust spontaneously would be quite frightening, and that the usual fir weapons ignore cover), here is the newer profile:

Taro Nagae - 150 points
WS7 BS7 S3 T3 W3 I7 A4 Ld10 Sv4+

Unit Type: Infantry.

Skystriker Expert - Scourges may be taken as Troops choices in an army which includes Taro Nagae.

Wargear: Ghostplate armour, phantasm grenade launcher, glowing blade (counts as an agoniser), shadow field.

Conflagrator: This pistol, sometimes called "Kianifie" which litterary means "Flame of Darkness", was crafted by Taro himself soon after he had seized contol of the kabal. It fires small crystals glowing with heat from dark flames, which when in contact with living matter sets the foe ablaze, often also burning those around him. It has this profile:

Range: 12" S: 4 Ap: 4 Type: Pistol, Pinning

Any model wounded by the Conflagrator suffer from Instant Death, regardless of its Toughness. If the Conflagrator causes an unsaved wound, it immediately causes an additional D6 S4 AP5 hits to the unit. These additional hits cannot be triggered more than once per shot and they do not cause instant death, however they ignore cover saves.

Special rules: Fleet, Night Vision, Power from Pain, Independent Character.

The Old Grudge: Taro holds a burning hatred for his brother and his new kin. He has the Prefered Enemy - Eldar special rule, and confers this to any unit he joins.

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Kabal of the Shadow Phoenix - Background
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Modelled: 2753 pts
Painted: 2263pts

shamroll wrote:
Dang! I was hoping Tyranids followed the Pokemon naming idea. A big Carnifex running around just yelling "Carnifex! Carni-Carnifex!" followed by a squad of termagants all saying "Termagant" to each other.


Last edited by Saintspirit on Mon May 23 2011, 21:15; edited 2 times in total
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Krovin-Rezh
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PostSubject: Re: Proposed Rules - Taro Nagae   Mon May 23 2011, 08:28

Scourges as troops is equal or better than Malys's redeployment. Her psychic immunity isn't much to write home about. She doesn't have...
Ghostplate armor
Shadowfield
Phantasm grenade launcher
A special stinger (or any gun at all, actually)
Preferred enemy - Eldar

Costing Taro only 15 points more than Malys would be off the mark.

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Xelkireth
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PostSubject: Re: Proposed Rules - Taro Nagae   Mon May 23 2011, 09:22

@Saintspirit: Awesome re-write.

@Krovin-Rezh: And 150 doesn't do it either. Taro is no Duke Sliscus.
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Todo13
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PostSubject: Re: Proposed Rules - Taro Nagae   Mon May 23 2011, 11:20

Although troop scourges are awesome, they certainly aren't up to par with reroll for combat drugs all deepstriking skimmers and poison 3 weapons. 145 is a good point value
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PostSubject: Re: Proposed Rules - Taro Nagae   Mon May 23 2011, 21:18

Just thought I should point out that I upped it it 150, partially because I upgraded his pistol a bit and partially because I get Krovin's point.

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shamroll wrote:
Dang! I was hoping Tyranids followed the Pokemon naming idea. A big Carnifex running around just yelling "Carnifex! Carni-Carnifex!" followed by a squad of termagants all saying "Termagant" to each other.
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Krovin-Rezh
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PostSubject: Re: Proposed Rules - Taro Nagae   Tue May 24 2011, 17:10

I'd try Taro out. Smile

Some people may discount taking Scourges as Troops, but can you imagine an army with 9 jump infantry squads, each packing carbines, with those kind of weapon options? It's would be scary.

Of course, it's hard to imagine buying that many scourges. They'd be good for apocalypse games though.

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PostSubject: Re: Proposed Rules - Taro Nagae   Tue May 24 2011, 20:15

@Krovin-Rezh wrote:
Of course, it's hard to imagine buying that many scourges.
No, exactly. They are quite expensive both in points and money, but them as troops could make for some very fun playing.

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shamroll wrote:
Dang! I was hoping Tyranids followed the Pokemon naming idea. A big Carnifex running around just yelling "Carnifex! Carni-Carnifex!" followed by a squad of termagants all saying "Termagant" to each other.
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