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DEfan
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PostSubject: HQ battle   Mon Nov 24 2014, 09:45

We postulate often about which HQ is most effective. In February I am running a doubles tournament but there will be a 90 minute delay between our last 1850 point game and prizegiving.
I was thinking of having a Kill Team type of game to fill that time gap. It would be HQ only invited and it would have to involve the same HQ the players ran throughout the tournament. The purpose is to find out which one is the Highlander/Last man standing.

I could imagine the Dark Kin getting some perverse pleasure watching their playthings fighting for survival in the death arenas.

I can obtain enough terrain to make about 3-4 4'x4' corridor and room systems or alternatively there are plenty of ruins we could use to make a death arena. I expect there to be about 20-30 players.

1) Would this sound fun to you?

2) How would you make the game work?







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ThreefoldSerpent
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PostSubject: Re: HQ battle   Mon Nov 24 2014, 09:57

would HQs get their dedicated transports? could be a little OP to have an archon with his venom, if someone takes one for him.
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DEfan
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PostSubject: Re: HQ battle   Mon Nov 24 2014, 10:55

No transports or flying mode monstrous creatures. Jumping, jetpacking and biking are probably OK, but will come with the Zone Mortalis rule of dangerous terrain tests for boosting, regardless of skilled rider.
This will generally be a foot race.

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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: HQ battle   Mon Nov 24 2014, 10:59

Crisis commanders with the jetpacks will rule here - too many guns and not enough scope to close on them unless you hamper the jet packs in some way, dangerous terrain isn't enough of a threat really, should cause a wound roughly once in 18 tests.

That's not to say I don't like the idea though! I was thinking of something similar at my club but gave up for the above reason (along with not a huge amount of interest)

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Mr. Ghoti
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PostSubject: Re: HQ battle   Mon Nov 24 2014, 12:22

hm I wouldn't make it a RACE, as obviously certain HQ's will win (anything on a bike/access to gate to the infinity/etc.)

This is an amazing idea that I wanted to do for my own group, actually. Here's how I'd run it:

Make it a corridor-filled bloodbath of hide and seek and you may be onto something! make 5" rooms adjacent to one another connected by corridors or something, and have enough "spawn points" predetermined for each HQ. randomly roll to place each HQ where they go (preferably in different corridors/rooms) negate swooping mode, but allow fmc's, negate boosts but allow jet pack thrusts only in the room/corridor they are in. No deepstriking/redeepstriking/jumping into ongoing reserves/spawning other units allowed.


Turn order is set per model of movement, psychic, shooting, assault. rotates around the room as normal.

10 Turns, most VP's, or last model standing wins.

Special rules:
Alone in the Dark - No Warlord traits are allowed, even if the model comes with it standard.

Head Hunting - before any blows are struck, the current turn's model may issue a challenge to any model in combat with it. If you accept a challenge, or one of your challenges is accepted, you gain a VP. Models in a challenge remain in a challenge until all models are slain. If you decline a challenge, you must attempt to break away, as in Fight Another Day. ANY NUMBER of models in that combat may accept or decline the challenge, and attacks in those challenges may be split as the owner chooses to target any other model, rolling against their WS. If you decline a challenge, but another model accepts the challenge, you automatically pass To Fight Another Day.

For Death of Glory - Models slain in close combat relinquish all of their VP's to the slayer. Slaying a model while you have no VP's grants you a VP. (in addition to the VP's gained from the slain model)

To Fight Another Day - at the end of an assault phase, no model checks for leadership whether they won or lost. Any model NOT in a challenge may attempt to break away from combat. To do so requires a roll off from all models in base contact with that model, just as in a sweeping advance. However, if caught by the sweeping advance, the combat continues as normal.


oooooooh this makes me giddy...
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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: HQ battle   Mon Nov 24 2014, 12:37

Its a decent idea, but it may run into a few poblems:

1/ What if one person has fully kitted out their HQ choice, but another has him as an after-thought and isn;t kitted out at all? The power balance will be way off.
2/ YOu said no flying monstrous, what if their only HQ is a flying monstrous?

I like the idea and think it could work, but think you might be far better off NOT using the HQ units they are using in the tournament proper and letting them bring a specific model for this under a points limits (and preset restrictions such as monstrous creatures. I think that would balance the power issue off the bat and make it a fairer game.

Otherwise I like the idea, as it reminds me of the old Arena of Death mini-game. I;d be tempted to suggest you head into that route as well.
Its basically the same as Kill-Team of course.

My suggestion might be that it becomes an all-out brawl rather than one-on-ones, and solo games can be quite heavily leant in favour of whoever goes first (depending on ranged weapons taken).
Make it all-out, either:
> Last Man Standing
or
> Trophy Collector - every time someone is eliminated, replace their model with an objective marker. End movement on a marker to premanantly pick it up (anyone can pick up any). Even if you were killed later, your trophies still count, and winner is most trophies at the end (with a bonus for Last Man Standing).


ALternatively, I've seen this one done, albeit it sort of failed and was rubbish, but I think the concept can be refined to a better working version:
Gauntlet. Set your own gauntlet, a Kill-team gaurding a path through terrain (maybe corridors, maybe whatever). Solo HQ choice under a points limit has to get to objective marker at the end. Points scored for killing respawning defenders, and for least turns needed to get through (and others maybe? secondary objectives along path?).
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PostSubject: Re: HQ battle   Mon Nov 24 2014, 14:27

I like this idea and have tried similar with friends. Have you considered something like the space hulk board? You can make it pretty mazy to allow for outflanks etc. Or even make a board like that. To the extent where it is narrow corridors with a few rooms. Should prevent ranged sniping coming into play too much and forces players to consider there movements and tactics over wargear.


This is also better if each players turn is done each phase e.g. All move,all shoot, all assault. Made even more interesting if everyone has a roll off to see who goes first each turn. (going first isn't always the best!)

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DEfan
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PostSubject: Re: HQ battle   Tue Nov 25 2014, 03:02

Excellent, keep these ideas coming. The info you have served so far will help me tighten my scenario writing.

Part of the problem is balance. If players have not taken a beatstick of an HQ, but their army has crushed all before them in the 1850 point missions, then this may be karma coming back to bite them in the gluteus maximus, you know? I kind of feel for an IG commisar, but then I also remember being curb stomped by his tanks, and then I don't feel so bad anymore that he is now in an uncomfortable situation and about to be torn a new one...

I will need to make this all clear in the player pack, so that all participants are aware of how to build a take all comers/deal with all scenarios list.

Yes, it will be an all out brawl. I really like the idea of random dice rolls deciding player order each turn and they spawn at different locations. I misworded my attempt with FMC before, I meant they can glide but not swoop.
Jetpacks and jetbikes ...hmmm...jump shoot jump is tricky but I do like "must remain in room/corridor started in." What about Low on fuel = roll 3d6, use 2 lowest for movement, no re-rolls, plus DT checks?

The idea of trophy tokens is cool. The player that finishes with most trophies will win the game, with a bonus for being last man standing.
Absolutely will use space hulk style corridors to prevent long range sniping.
What about earning wargear points or replenishing health with each kill? Power from slaughter!

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Izaeus
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PostSubject: Re: HQ battle   Tue Nov 25 2014, 17:54

You could have everYone start with out their war gear and they would have to run through the maze to collect it before attacking each other (each item would be locked and can only be opened by the owners bio signature) kind of like hunger games and other gladatorial battles that I've read about.
And for added hijinks have some kind of tyranI'd that can copy someone's bio signature to steal their stuff, a lecture or broodlord with hit and run so they can get into closecombat to 'copy' their signature, though they'd need to be buffed up as well.
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PostSubject: Re: HQ battle   Wed Nov 26 2014, 20:29

Weren't there rules for these duels in the crusade of fire campaign? And really Dark Eldar style?

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honethedroll
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PostSubject: Re: HQ battle   Mon Dec 01 2014, 18:12

Are there changes to the way Malefic works in Kill Teams? Because that could present some nasty unbalancing issues.

Honestly, my concern is that to make this work you'd have to hamstring so many of the things that make HQ cool and unique that you'd end up sapping the fun...I think requiring the use of the same HQ from the tourney list would compound the issue.

My alternative thought is this, set a point limit. Say, bring the HQ from the tourney list along with his preferred escort, then throw everything in the mix. This way, you allow the HQ who don't function as well in 1v1 situations to have some ablative wounds as they throw themselves against that thunderwolf-mounted Wolf Lord.


EDIT: To clarify, the HQ would not be able to separate from his entourage.
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PostSubject: Re: HQ battle   Tue Dec 02 2014, 04:41

Thanks for the ideas. The spawning of demons is a thing nowadays. The whole psychic phase could become messy. Let's say 6 players share a board and one of them throws for one of those uber powers like invisibilty. The remaining 5 players would then roll for deny the witch. That could be a reasonable safeguard.
Basically, I want to have it so that no player requires a 6 to hit. That's not fun. Hence the restriction on FMC going into flight mode.

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