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 archon/haemy wwp with mandrakes ???

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doriii
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PostSubject: archon/haemy wwp with mandrakes ???   Sat Nov 15 2014, 04:53

Has anyone played this before and how has it gone

wwp 10 drakes with archon/blaster/haemy/liquifier somewhere nice with other deep striking units following
assault 2 S4 AP4 could cause some havoc also their shrouded+stealth for some shenanigans

im thinking i'll try it out in my next game

btw had a good time with caltrop reavers the other day, they rock !
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Myrvn
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PostSubject: Re: archon/haemy wwp with mandrakes ???   Sat Nov 15 2014, 13:50

I'm intrigued, but not sure it would be worth the points.

Mandrakes are great units with decent shots, but the cover save is mitigated by assault. They have decent range guns and the WWP seems to thrive on precision, which I imagine would be relatively close to the opponent.

So mandrakes by themselves seem little improved by a WWP to me. They can infiltrate in a large portion of the battlefield.

Now, as an archon delivery method, maybe it would be a good one.
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Mr Believer
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PostSubject: Re: archon/haemy wwp with mandrakes ???   Mon Nov 17 2014, 13:47

If you don't have any other elites, you could have three minimum sized squads of mandrakes on the table, infiltrated, with the Archon in reserve. He deep strikes into coherency with one of the units without scattering, meaning he instantly joins the unit. Gives you some flexibility with where you bring him and he still gets the saves from them. Kind of like a reverse way of how mandrakes used to work - your opponent knows the Archon is going to appear in one of the squads, but which?

I'd say bringing them on with the portal is pointless though. There are units the Archon could bring with him that could do a lot more damage to more opportune targets, whether they be blasterborn taking out backfield armour, warriors hosing an objective camping troops or Grotesques primed for a rampage. Mandrakes being irritatingly survivable only really works if they start on the board, otherwise the big advantage they have in that regard isn't being made use of.

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doriii
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PostSubject: Re: archon/haemy wwp with mandrakes ???   Mon Nov 17 2014, 18:59

@Mr Believer wrote:
If you don't have any other elites, you could have three minimum sized squads of mandrakes on the table, infiltrated, with the Archon in reserve. He deep strikes into coherency with one of the units without scattering, meaning he instantly joins the unit. Gives you some flexibility with where you bring him and he still gets the saves from them. Kind of like a reverse way of how mandrakes used to work - your opponent knows the Archon is going to appear in one of the squads, but which?

I'd say bringing them on with the portal is pointless though. There are units the Archon could bring with him that could do a lot more damage to more opportune targets, whether they be blasterborn taking out backfield armour, warriors hosing an objective camping troops or Grotesques primed for a rampage. Mandrakes being irritatingly survivable only really works if they start on the board, otherwise the big advantage they have in that regard isn't being made use of.

Yeah i like that, 3 min size. Im gonna try em all out Very Happy or a 20 man warrior squad... So much to test out Smile
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solar shock
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PostSubject: Re: archon/haemy wwp with mandrakes ???   Thu Nov 20 2014, 08:14

But what do you gain by DSing a lone archon into a mandrake squad?
I dont think the archon really brings enough on his own, i'd much prefer to DS him in with another unit.
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doriii
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PostSubject: Re: archon/haemy wwp with mandrakes ???   Thu Nov 20 2014, 18:52

i thought he'd bring a blaster/agonizer for some extra oomph, buts hes really just their portal.
i agree that he doesnt really bring much to the table for the points thats invested though
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solar shock
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PostSubject: Re: archon/haemy wwp with mandrakes ???   Thu Nov 20 2014, 19:29

I plan on running some mandrakes, the eldar karandras is probably the best HQ i could imagine with them, but hes more CC orientated.

Hmm, maybe a more shooty haemi would be appropriate? hmm even then its nothing special. Hex rifle has a nice ID, and the template on the liquifier probably isnt useful either as your not going to want to be that close.

For whatever the cost of the HQ i think that equal amount of points in mandrakes is probably going to be more useful. As i cant think of much that synergises well with them. Yeh a blaster is the same range, but much higher str lower ap. hmm could be useful in some circumstances but really not sure its worth the tax of a HQ.
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fala
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PostSubject: Re: archon/haemy wwp with mandrakes ???   Tue Dec 09 2014, 14:58

I played an Archon with Agonizer, Shadowfield, HWG and WWP with 10 Mandrakes in few low-point games. It serves as an Archon delivery system, while the Mandrakes are decent late-game unit. You DS into cover and tank one turn with your 2+ cover save and FNP, then Archon goes alone to kill some stuff and Mandrakes charge some vehicles with theirs S5 with Furious charge.

If you don't need an HQ slot and elite slot this is a cheap all-rounder.
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Laughingcarp
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PostSubject: Re: archon/haemy wwp with mandrakes ???   Tue Dec 09 2014, 19:58

Don't forget that DSing into cover forces the Archon to make a Dangerous Terrain test, WWP or no!

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: archon/haemy wwp with mandrakes ???   Tue Dec 09 2014, 22:50

Personally, I think the Mandrakes aren't worth it. The Archon doesn't protect them from CC, and they no longer have an invuln save. And their shooting attack leaves them vulnerable to charges. If your meta has little to no melee, I might chance it, but if you haven't bought Mandrakes yet I wouldn't.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: archon/haemy wwp with mandrakes ???   Thu Dec 11 2014, 18:11

Is their shooting attack impressive enough to warrant this?

I guess I'm just struggling to see the appeal of some S4 AP4 shots. Neutral
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sweetbacon
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PostSubject: Re: archon/haemy wwp with mandrakes ???   Thu Dec 11 2014, 20:10

@The Shredder wrote:
Is their shooting attack impressive enough to warrant this?

I guess I'm just struggling to see the appeal of some S4 AP4 shots. Neutral

Yeah, this was my reaction as well.  If people are using Mandrakes and finding them useful, then more power to them and I'm glad they are able to make Mandrakes work.  

Personally, I think Mandrakes went from arguably the worst unit in all of 40K to merely not that good.  I hope they send Hellions and Bloodbrides a nice Christmas card this year because those two units are, in my opinion, the only things standing between Mandrakes and the dubious honor of being the worst unit in the new codex.
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clever handle
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PostSubject: Re: archon/haemy wwp with mandrakes ???   Thu Dec 11 2014, 23:33

I think the use of mandrakes is a simple harassment unit. Sure they're useless against assault - but that means that player is committing resources for at least 1 turn to remove the mandrakes, not including maneuvering into & out of place. Also against Eldar w/ serpents they're not terribly useful - except again, to use the sheild against them for the ignores cover shots means they're not using the shield against your vehicles for a turn (T1, deploy vehicles out of LOS, infiltrate mandrakes into cover for a 2+ save, "bait" serpents to fire sheilds at mandrakes, thus losing that protection for your return fire); also against Tau, the AP4 shots are good against firewarriors & pathfinders, the army generally lacks templates (when was the last time you saw a Tau player put flamers on crisis suits - they never want to get that close!). Hell, against firewarriors, kroot and eldar, Mandrakes are more efficient shooting platforms than kabalites since they wound on 3's and greatly ignore armor...

Basically, with infiltrate and a 2+ coversave I see them as a cheap disposable unit that scores objectives in Maelstrom, and simply requires an expenditure of resources to remove, that would be better spent elsewhere. They do not bring great offensive power, even at turn 4...
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