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Despiciens
Hellion


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Join date : 2011-05-21

PostSubject: Growing pains   Sun May 22 2011, 01:05

Having the same codex for 12 years is bound to leave an impression on people. I'm wondering what people miss or dont miss about the old codex compared to the new.

I like the fact that the shadowfield and agoniser were unchanged but I miss the old mandrake deployment rules. They were very out there and led to entertaining games.
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crysbat
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PostSubject: Re: Growing pains   Sun May 22 2011, 01:54

hmmm...

Well, I preferred the way wych weapons were in the second version of our old codex, simplified things a bit.

Aswell as that I miss incubi being a retinue, granted I'm glad we can have more, I just preferred it when I could have them take the hit instead of my archon, perfect for when I got my agoniser lord in contact with say, a daemon prince

what else...
kruellagh the vile, she was my favourite character of all time, horrible model, but I loved the idea behind it and the profile wasn't half bad too.

Mandrakes deployment I definitely miss.

as for what I don't miss:

the limitation of wych armies and kabal armies, really annoyed me before that I couldn't run both wyches and warriors as troops (not like I complained though, I still mostly run warriors, but having wyches in that slot has really buffed their effectiveness in my eyes)

erm, the overall lack of forgiveness which I find the new codex has (albeit nowhere near the forgiveness of say, space marines, but it's still easier to be starting out with dark eldar now than before)

the lack of background, this is one of my favourite parts of 40k, the background behind the armies, or at least the good background, makes me much more interested in the game.
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Sky Serpent
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PostSubject: Re: Growing pains   Sun May 22 2011, 05:54

Despiciens wrote:
I like the fact that the shadowfield and agoniser were unchanged

Both worse. Shadowfield now needs to be rolled one at a time, thus more likely to die. Agoniser used to glance vehicles on a 6. Gone.

I miss the Agoniser glance rule a lot.

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Despiciens
Hellion


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PostSubject: Re: Growing pains   Sun May 22 2011, 16:51

Sky Serpent wrote:
Despiciens wrote:
I like the fact that the shadowfield and agoniser were unchanged

Both worse. Shadowfield now needs to be rolled one at a time, thus more likely to die. Agoniser used to glance vehicles on a 6. Gone.

I miss the Agoniser glance rule a lot.

Hmm I always rolled the shadow field like it says to roll it now. It just seemed like that's how it was intended to be played. Also with our plethora of Darklight weapons and now even a new melta lance weapon do we really need to send agonisers at tanks in the hopes that we roll a 6 just to glance?
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Arhra
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PostSubject: Re: Growing pains   Mon May 23 2011, 14:18

Overall, the new Codex is amazing. Better than I would have ever thought it would turn out.

My biggest complaint is the lack of the Jetbike/Skyboard Archon. My Jetbike Archon was fearless, always had fun with him.
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Xelkireth
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PostSubject: Re: Growing pains   Mon May 23 2011, 14:34

My complaints:
Scourges are jump infantry and don't have jet packs.
Reavers seem to be overcosted.
Why have the retinue rule in the main rulebook if you can't have one? Incubi, I'm looking at you.
Sslyth are super cool, but overcosted.
The old Mandrake deployment was awesome. I wish they kept it.
Mandraks need power weapon options.
Trueborn are kind of bland for elites.
Loss of jetbike archon.
The succubus is useless.

My approvals:
The new models. Enough said.
Most scourge weapons are assault.
Razorwing and Voidraven.
Ravagers can move and fire three dark lances.
Did I mention the new models?
Wyches and Warriors are troops.
You can play a Coven list.
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crysbat
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PostSubject: Re: Growing pains   Mon May 23 2011, 16:20

Xelkireth wrote:
My complaints:
Scourges are jump infantry and don't have jet packs.
Reavers seem to be overcosted.
Why have the retinue rule in the main rulebook if you can't have one? Incubi, I'm looking at you.
Sslyth are super cool, but overcosted.
The old Mandrake deployment was awesome. I wish they kept it.
Mandraks need power weapon options.
Trueborn are kind of bland for elites.
Loss of jetbike archon.
The succubus is useless.

whilst I agree with most of these, I have to call you out on a couple of things:

the succubus isn't useless so much as outdone by other selections in the hq choice, but she can make a nice addition.

I'm not sure what you mean by bland for true born, but I think they're a nice addition, they can make people who're nostalgic for the old codex (god knows why) play the new one like they used to, warriors in elites, wyches in troops, or vice a versa.

the reavers part I'm so-so on, all I can do is bring forward the fact that our jetbikes are the same cost (I believe) as eldar jetbikes, but ours are more usefull (troops aside that is)
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Rangrok1k
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PostSubject: Re: Growing pains   Tue May 24 2011, 00:56

I miss:
- The old Disintegrator
- The ability for an Archon/Haemonculus to take a jetbike.
- The old Stinger that created the small blast that had the str and ap of the model's t and armor save
- Drazhar's old Disemboweller Blades and their double wounds
- The Dias of Destruction having av 14/14/14 and capable of assault Very Happy
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Xelkireth
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PostSubject: Re: Growing pains   Tue May 24 2011, 00:57

Rangrok1k wrote:
I miss:
- The old Disintegrator
THHHHIIIIIIISSSSSSSS!!!!!
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Aroshamash
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PostSubject: Re: Growing pains   Tue May 24 2011, 04:31

Xelkireth wrote:
My complaints:
Scourges are jump infantry and don't have jet packs.
Meh, save the JSJ for the Tau, it's one of their unique tactics. The last thing they need is the Dark Eldar stealing it for a unit that doesn't fit such a guerilla strategy. The Scourge are much more agressive, so it seems to me. They take up a firing position, and annihilate their target, before leaving to find a new position for a new target.
Quote :
Why have the retinue rule in the main rulebook if you can't have one? Incubi, I'm looking at you.
We also have rules for AV14 vehicles in the rulebook, but Dark Eldar don't have them. Imperial Guard don't get jetbikes either, yet there are rules for them in the rulebook.
Just because something's in there, doesn't mean every army should have it. Personally, I never agreed with the old role of Incubi. They're our Aspect Warriors, brutal fighters and murderous warriors, yet they do nothing but babysit an Archon? Makes no sense.

Quote :
My approvals:
The new models. Enough said.
Most scourge weapons are assault.
Razorwing and Voidraven.
Ravagers can move and fire three dark lances.
Did I mention the new models?
Wyches and Warriors are troops.
You can play a Coven list.
Every one of these though I have to agree with.
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Krovin-Rezh
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PostSubject: Re: Growing pains   Tue May 24 2011, 11:41

Horrorfexes
10 point dark lances, 1 per 5 Warriors
Mixed squads of Incubi and Warriors
Archite with punisher, combat drugs, tormentor helm, and reaver jetbike (S6 FTW)
Taking gambles picking multiple combat drugs
Haemonculi with destructors on reaver jetbikes

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Archon
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PostSubject: Re: Growing pains   Wed May 25 2011, 19:00

I miss the blast template on the disintegrator the most. I was ready to start lamenting the loss of the glance rule on the agonzier, but the blast pistol more than makes up for it in my mind.
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Archon Levitas
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PostSubject: Re: Growing pains   Tue Jun 21 2011, 12:09

Umm how about scourges being able to take 4 heavy weapons per 5 guys!?!




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GrenAcid
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PostSubject: Re: Growing pains   Wed Jun 22 2011, 00:41

Desintegrator
Horror/terror-fex
Jetbike for archon
Taking gambles picking multiple combat drugs

Quote :
They're our Aspect Warriors, brutal fighters and murderous warriors, yet they do nothing but babysit an Archon? Makes no sense.

Have you read old codex?....answer is out there.

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Raneth
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PostSubject: Re: Growing pains   Wed Jun 22 2011, 18:14

Like:
- new model range
- Wyches as Troops
- Power from Pain
- Incubi as indep Elite without the need for an Archon
- Fleet on Incubi
- Cronos/new Talos
- VENOM!

Dislike:
- that sad excuse for Animus Vitae
- no glance on Agoniser
- Disintegrator change

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Anggul
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PostSubject: Re: Growing pains   Thu Jun 23 2011, 19:03

I like most things except for the fact that Drazhar is apparently only as skilled as an Archon (which sadly means they'll probably leave the Phoenix Lords at this statline, which is stupid), the Harlequins didn't get buffed in any way (increasing their invulnerable to 4+ would have been good enough), despite the fact that they are clearly worse than they were in 4th ed due to the lack of sweeping advance assaults and the nerf to rending. Oh, and The Decapitator sucks, which is a shame.

It's no doubt the most balanced codex right now, with pretty much all of the units having uses (even if Mandrakes are a bit expensive, and dark lances are stupidly expensive for warriors), and of course the models are great too.

Things I miss? Pretty much just the disintegrator blast mode. There really isn't much reason to take them now. Other than that, it's amazingly good. Scourges should obviously count as jetpack infantry, but then so should anything with sustained flight (I'm looking at you Gargoyles), but they really seem to want the Tau to be the only ones with jetpack rules. Although really it's just for the 6" movement in the assault phase, a scourge shouldn't be able to fire a dark lance on the move, that would be silly.


The sheer amount of absolutely brilliant backstory is great.
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