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The_Hornet
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PostSubject: Dark Eldar CAD Fear Bomb   Mon Nov 10 2014, 18:53

Hi all,

So I have just been having a wee looksee at the potential for a monstrous fear bomb Turn 2 and this is what I have come up with:

Succubus w/ armour of misery & phantasm grenade launcher - 105pts
Haemonculus w/ archangel of pain & WWP - 130 pts
4 Grotesques from the coven supplement - 140
Raider with torment grenade launcher - 70
in total = 445pts

So how would this work then?

Say you get in on turn 2 with the WWP, you should place your raider so that it is within 6 inches of multiple units so that the armour of misery works, preferably those without invulnerable saves and with low Ld. In the shooting phase your raider targets one unit with the torment launcher and the embarked unit fire at another wit the phantasm + any optional liquifiers that you want to take. After this the Haemonculi can use his relic and all enemies within 6 will have a -5 ld and -3 within 9 inches.

What damage can this do then?

Ignoring all other shooting from the raider and the grotesques this is the no. of wounds and percentage of the time that fear will do on average to different units:

         From the phantasm/torment                    from the archangel of pain
Ld 7   | 0/17% |1/11% |2/14% |3/17% |4+/41%    |0/3%   |1/6%  |2/8%   |3/11% |4/14% |5+/58%
Ld 8   |0/28%  |1/14% |2/17% |3/14% |4+/27%     |0/9%   |1/8%  |2/11%  |3/14% |4/17% |5+/41%
Ld 9   | 0/42% |1/17% |2/14% |3/11% |4+/16%    |0/17% |1/11% |2/14% |3/17% |4/14% |5+/27%
Ld 10 |0/59%  |1/14% |2/11% |3/8%   |4+/8%       |0/28% |1/14% |2/17% |3/14% |4/11% |5+/16%

this can be changed into average wounds per test into:

Ld 7                     3.15 wounds                                                5.05 wounds
Ld 8                     2.31 wounds                                                4.07 wounds
Ld 9                     1.58 wounds                                                3.15 wounds
Ld 10                   0.99 wounds                                                2.31 wounds

So assuming you had 2 units within 6 with a Ld of 8 on average you will do 6.38 armour and cover ignoring wounds to each before firing your disintigrator cannon or any liquifiers. Not too bad eh?
Also remember if you do manage to cause enough wounds they will then have to take a morale check with their modified Ld to make sure they don't run off the board!


This is requires  a lot of points however it isn't exactly a one trick pony because after you arrive you can disembark and charge with a very powerful unit. Remember that the haemi provides +1 to the PfP turn and the grotesques are great at taking and dealing damage.

Any thoughts/ comments about how to improve this are welcome!
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thaotic
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar CAD Fear Bomb   Mon Nov 10 2014, 22:58

If you want to oversize this plan. Swap the Raider for a Tantalus and beef up the Grot squad. Much larger footprint so the chance to affect a larger number of squads, as well as the increased firepower of an extra 9 Disintegrator Cannon shots.

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The_Hornet
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar CAD Fear Bomb   Tue Nov 11 2014, 00:43

As much as I would love to give that a shot I am pretty new to the hobby and still have plenty of other things to pick up first.

Do you own a tantalus? how do they play?
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Dark Lance
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar CAD Fear Bomb   Tue Nov 11 2014, 02:18

Is it bad form to add in a craft world ally?  

Consider throwing in 1 or more spiritseers.  You can take up to 5 in a HQ detachment of Iyanden Eldar and each of them get psychic shriek as their primaris power from telepathy.  You could take 1 from telepathy for Psychic Shriek and 1 from runes of battle for a chance at terrify (-3 LD).  Spiritseers are mastery level 2 psychers.  

I keep toying with this idea.  Lately, I've considered a spirit seer with 3 incubi or 3 eldar reapers in a venom.   Consider the 3 dark reaper option -- against bikes = Psychic Shriek + Venom 12 poison (4+) + 6 STR 5 AP3 ignores jink shots.  Perhaps you deep strike behind a wave serpent with 3  STR 8 AP3 ignores jink missiles. You can't effect the unit inside the serpent this turn but the venom unit is a substantial threat to whatever was inside on the next turn.

Going back to the original post. Against Ld 8 this venom unit might add another 2.31 wds in the psychic phase and do more wds in the shooting phase leading to another ld check.  Of course if you get Terrify off than the 2.31 wds will increase to 5.31(?)

Good Luck and looking forward to some war stories
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar CAD Fear Bomb   Tue Nov 11 2014, 05:51

Not to be a party pooper but a Succubus totally can't take a Phantasm Grenade Launcher Mad

That said you could bring 2 Archons. 1 has PGL and Armour of Misery, stays in the vehicle. The 2nd has only PGL, disembarks, and now you have 3 independently targeting Soulfright weapons.

Total heresy, but once I get some Slaanesh daemons I plan on fielding them together. Slaaneshi psychic powers have a lot of LD test type things.

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The PayneTrayn
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar CAD Fear Bomb   Tue Nov 11 2014, 12:20

Question: Will multiple PGL/TGL stack with each other?
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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar CAD Fear Bomb   Tue Nov 11 2014, 12:59

@The PayneTrayn wrote:
Question: Will multiple PGL/TGL stack with each other?

How do you mean stack? They're shooting weapons so just cause wounds.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar CAD Fear Bomb   Tue Nov 11 2014, 13:09

@The_Burning_Eye wrote:
@The PayneTrayn wrote:
Question: Will multiple PGL/TGL stack with each other?

How do you mean stack? They're shooting weapons so just cause wounds.

I assume he means do you have to take a Ld test for each weapon fired. I would say not as the rule says:

Quote :
At the end of the Shooting phase, a unit that has suffered one or more hits from a weapon with this special rule in that phase must make a Leadership test.

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The PayneTrayn
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar CAD Fear Bomb   Tue Nov 11 2014, 14:19

Something to submit to GW for an FAQ ruling?
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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar CAD Fear Bomb   Tue Nov 11 2014, 14:35

I think Count's quote covers it perfectly well enough to not require an FAQ. Leadership test is in the singular, one or more hits covers more than one weapon shooting. Clear as gin.

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The_Hornet
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar CAD Fear Bomb   Tue Nov 11 2014, 16:13

Yeah I agree, when I read it the first time I thought that you could only get 1 soulfright test per unit per turn, the relic is completely different though so should stack.

Regarding using Eldar I don't have any/the codex and am not looking to but if they stack nicely then that is another option.

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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar CAD Fear Bomb   Wed Nov 12 2014, 00:44

I was thinking of doing something like this, too, so I'm glad to see someone started a thread about it. May I suggest: When you unleash this combo attack, you definitely want to start with the Archangel of Pain before firing any Torment/Phantasmal Grenade Launchers or any other models. The Archangel has a very short range, and if you kill any models from other shooting before using the Archangel, you may have inadvertently removed the enemy's models that are in range. Additionally, the Armour of Misery's very short range will also mean that when it comes time for the unit to take the Leadership test, if you have already killed the models within range then the unit won't take the penalty to Leadership.

And, of course, none of the DE fear-based attacks will hurt anything with ATSKNF, which means that this tactic will be situational and tricky--but it will be awesome when you can pull it off. If you can Deep Strike on top of a Tau gunline (and somehow survive the inevitable Interceptor fire) your opponent could quite likely have to pick up fistfuls of models at a time. Nice.

If you do ever get to use this topic, will you please write a post about how it worked out?
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar CAD Fear Bomb   Wed Nov 12 2014, 01:22

To me the problem is that it isn't just ATSKNF. It is also Fearless. So in addition to all Loyalist marine armies, it also doesn't work against the bulk of CSM lists (cult Troops and DPs are Fearless), Tyranids, and a plethora of other problem models (Wraithknights come to mind).

That kind of unreliability is why I'd dismiss this kind of list. If it was deployment or Psychic power choice that is one thing since you could change based on opponent. But here you are spending tons of points on a gimic that is literally useless against half of the armies in the game. If Fearless was the only exception or ATSKNF was just +2-3 LD then that'd be one thing, but completely useless a lot of the time doesn't sit right with me.
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar CAD Fear Bomb   Wed Nov 12 2014, 06:34

Doesn't works against:
-Astartes
-Astra Militarum's blob
-CSM and cultist blob
-Eldar Wave Spam (5*5 Dire Avengers embarked)
-Tau (good luck with Broadsides AND Riptide Interceptors..)
-Daemons (3++\2++ on Screamers)
-Tyranids (fearless)



That's the matter :-/
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar CAD Fear Bomb   Wed Nov 12 2014, 07:19

As has been established elsewhere though, only models that actually have the Fearless or ATSKNF rules are immune. Other models in the same unit, whilst gaining the benefit of those rules do not actually have the rule itself and are therefor vulnerable. Similarly with Tyranids, only MODELS inside Synapse range are Fearless. Other models in the unit that are not themselves within Synapse range can be effected.

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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar CAD Fear Bomb   Wed Nov 12 2014, 07:38

@Count Adhemar wrote:
As has been established elsewhere though, only models that actually have the Fearless or ATSKNF rules are immune. Other models in the same unit, whilst gaining the benefit of those rules do not actually have the rule itself and are therefor vulnerable. Similarly with Tyranids, only MODELS inside Synapse range are Fearless. Other models in the unit that are not themselves within Synapse range can be effected.


Mh...so it works against cultist blob and Astra blob. Is this necessary? I don't think so.

Spiritseers-screamsbomb works way better imho
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar CAD Fear Bomb   Wed Nov 12 2014, 07:49

Combine the two a hybrid of spiritseer-screambomb and dark eldar terror raid.
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar CAD Fear Bomb   Wed Nov 12 2014, 09:33

@Cerve wrote:

Mh...so it works against cultist blob and Astra blob. Is this necessary? I don't think so.

Spiritseers-screamsbomb works way better imho
]

That may be, but if you don't want to use allies, then this is our alternative.

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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar CAD Fear Bomb   Wed Nov 12 2014, 11:22

@The_Burning_Eye wrote:
@Cerve wrote:

Mh...so it works against cultist blob and Astra blob. Is this necessary? I don't think so.

Spiritseers-screamsbomb works way better imho
]

That may be, but if you don't want to use allies, then this is our alternative.

I simply prefer to play another way, and don't waste points in a fearbomb which works in 1/6 of the games :S

Fearbomb is specialized. Too much specialized, for me
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar CAD Fear Bomb   Wed Nov 12 2014, 13:35

I think that saying that this works against Tyranids is a practical fallacy. While it is true that models without Fearless can be assigned wounds (which is why I didn't mention blobs or CSM bikes), Tyranid models don't need to be in Synapse to have Fearless - many of their units have Fearless anyway. So, in practice, you can sometimes kill Deep Striking Ripper Swarms. And only if they are not podding in Zoanthropes.

I think this will work substantially more than the 1/6 number, but depending on the meta, I think it is reasonable to expect that about half of the time it will fail. A 50% fail rate is huge for such a points and tactical investment. That's the problem.

Again, if it was just Fearless, whatever. But ATSKNF just ratchets the risk up too high.
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar CAD Fear Bomb   Wed Nov 12 2014, 13:56

I'd have to agree, i took torment launchers last time out and even though I was facing chaos marines (so no ATSKNF), by the time everything else had finished shooting (and bearing in mind the Ld test is done at the end of the phase) the only infantry models left alive that I could target (ie not in transports) happened to be two noise marines. Which are fearless... Evil or Very Mad

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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar CAD Fear Bomb   Thu Nov 13 2014, 01:18

So, in sum, if you know you are playing against Tau: By all means, try this out!
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar CAD Fear Bomb   Thu Nov 13 2014, 10:45

@Vorenus wrote:
So, in sum, if you know you are playing against Tau:  By all means, try this out!

Good luck with interceptors!
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar CAD Fear Bomb   Thu Nov 13 2014, 16:44

Well if you are wanting to Webway portal in general against the tau they will be using their interceptor on your other models anyway, so perhaps leave this model till the end so that they spend their interceptor fire on the rest of your models.
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PostSubject: Re: Dark Eldar CAD Fear Bomb   Thu Nov 13 2014, 16:50

@The_Hornet wrote:
Well if you are wanting to Webway portal in general against the tau they will be using their interceptor on your other models anyway, so perhaps leave this model till the end so that they spend their interceptor fire on the rest of your models.

Interceptor happens at the end of the movement phase so you will need to have moved all your reserves onto the table before the Tau player decides what to shoot.

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