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 The new Beast"masters" - a hit or miss?

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Ly'khal the Exiled
Hellion
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Location : Trying to get the Tau away from my lawn!

PostSubject: Re: The new Beast"masters" - a hit or miss?   Thu Nov 20 2014, 21:51

The big problem in this would be that do you, really, wan't to use up 6 slots with 2-3 model units, taking places from scourges, reavers and/or razorwing jetfighters? I totally get your idea but without an unbound list I wouldn't go there.. I mean the units I mentioned are essential in almost all of the list that I've seen..

So I'm not sold, being a semi-competetive a** that I am. But I can't deny that your idea would be super-fun to test out (if not for anything else, just to see my opponent's face while he's eyeing my list Very Happy )
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solar shock
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PostSubject: Re: The new Beast"masters" - a hit or miss?   Fri Nov 21 2014, 04:03

ill let you know if i run it, i intend to run a DE/Eldar list, so hopefully i can run the 6 FA slot as the secondary, or something along those lines Smile

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False Son
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PostSubject: Re: The new Beast"masters" - a hit or miss?   Fri Nov 21 2014, 18:06

It seems like a decent idea in theory.  This edition's overemphasis on shooting means most people aren't prepared to counter this sort of mini unit spamming with multi unit assaults.  But, you are giving up a great deal of potential hitting power by going this route.  Having 6 FA slots to work with is nice.  But, it is also shared by potential Reavers and Scourges.  Everything else would have to pick up the slack for your missed AT potential.

I'm all for unconventional DE tactics.  Just nto sure horde of any sort is our business.
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solar shock
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PostSubject: Re: The new Beast"masters" - a hit or miss?   Sat Nov 22 2014, 12:02

Hmm i do see your arguments, if you running a pure DE list then yeh you'll be eating in to a highly prized slot that could be filled with some great units. But in my case im running eldar and DE, so my eldar bring a wraithknight and warwalkers and so forth. So il still have a unit of scourge, but my AT should be pretty well covered. Then for say around 120 pts i can potentially bring 6 units of 2x khymeara, which while nothing to write home about, its also not a huge pts sink. I think il have to test it Smile
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Dallo019
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PostSubject: Re: The new Beast"masters" - a hit or miss?   Sat Nov 22 2014, 18:28

Solar Shock, why run units of 2x Khymeara? I think by taking them in units of more than one, you are wasting points. If they are used for cheap scoring, one can hold just as well as two models, is easier to hide and is cheaper. One model will absorb overwatch just as well as two and is cheaper. You may get lucky and only loose one on the charge, but chances are, you're still dead come next turn. Another benefit of running them in units of one is that you pretty much ignore the issues of leadership. Take 25% casualties in the shooting phase? The unit's dead, so no test. Lose combat by one wound? Unit's dead, so no test. Besides, if a unit can kill one t4 5++ model, it's fair to assume they can kill two just as easily.

If you have the force org space, I'd say run them all as units of one. If not, and you want to use all of the models, have all units of one, then one larger unit of 7 maybe with a beastmaster.

Dallo
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honethedroll
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PostSubject: Re: The new Beast"masters" - a hit or miss?   Sat Nov 22 2014, 19:30

Also, a unit of one is going to be even harder for your opponent to justify shooting at. I have seen a player do this in my local league, and even in PtA, his opponent ignored it completely.
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solar shock
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PostSubject: Re: The new Beast"masters" - a hit or miss?   Sat Nov 22 2014, 19:42

@Dallo019 wrote:
Solar Shock, why run units of 2x Khymeara? I think by taking them in units of more than one, you are wasting points. If they are used for cheap scoring, one can hold just as well as two models, is easier to hide and is cheaper. One model will absorb overwatch just as well as two and is cheaper. You may get lucky and only loose one on the charge, but chances are, you're still dead come next turn. Another benefit of running them in units of one is that you pretty much ignore the issues of leadership. Take 25% casualties in the shooting phase? The unit's dead, so no test. Lose combat by one wound? Unit's dead, so no test. Besides, if a unit can kill one t4 5++ model, it's fair to assume they can kill two just as easily.

If you have the force org space, I'd say run them all as units of one. If not, and you want to use all of the models, have all units of one, then one larger unit of 7 maybe with a beastmaster.

Dallo

very very fair arguments Dallo Smile I had thought the same myself, my post was more an example i plucked outa my head, but yeh, for all the reasons you stated units of 1 are equally as effective and half the cost Very Happy so I could run 12! or take a venom or 2 Razz The only upside would be for movement blocking. So I might run a unit of 2 with the rest 1's, just to see whether the points could be useful in helping block a path. As with 1 model you have in effect a 3inch bubble (taking the base as 1 inch-ish), but with 2 that is at max about 5 inch.

But yeh thats a very situational thing where 2 might possibly maybe be better than 1 Razz So thanks Dallo. I will need to convert a few up and test it. Thoughts about 6x1 clawed fiends all running straight for rear armour?

Also, ahhhh nvm, just looked up rending. Its a armour pen f 6 gains +D3 to the roll. So at str 3, roll of 6 (9), a D3 would result in a glance/pen. Wondering about MSU units targeting vehicles as sort of like pesky pests simly slowly eating away armour. But at 20 pts a flock doubt its very effective.
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j-machine
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PostSubject: Re: The new Beast"masters" - a hit or miss?   Tue Nov 25 2014, 19:26

I realize you are sacrificing a bunch of fast attack slots, but assuming you are running an elite and heavy support heavy grot / talos army, anyone thought of doing the realspace raider detachment with 6 single units of 1 Clawed Fiend? I am thinking of doing this and just having a bunch of 30 pt disruption monkeys running about tieing up devastater squads, soaking up overwatch and causing a ruckus?

I figure running Clawed Fiends alone negates the fear of them fleeing from shooting.
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Laughingcarp
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PostSubject: Re: The new Beast"masters" - a hit or miss?   Tue Nov 25 2014, 20:39

Beware Tau and Target Lock with this strategy.

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sweetbacon
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PostSubject: Re: The new Beast"masters" - a hit or miss?   Tue Nov 25 2014, 22:09

@j-machine wrote:
I realize you are sacrificing a bunch of fast attack slots, but assuming you are running an elite and heavy support heavy grot / talos army, anyone thought of doing the realspace raider detachment with 6 single units of 1 Clawed Fiend? I am thinking of doing this and just having a bunch of 30 pt disruption monkeys running about tieing up devastater squads, soaking up overwatch and causing a ruckus?

I figure running Clawed Fiends alone negates the fear of them fleeing from shooting.

It's a very interesting strategy.  I'm not sure how much they'll tie anything up, though, as they only have a 6+ save, no FNP, and LD 5.  If they even take one wound, odds are they're running away/getting swept.  And they're WS 3.  These are probably one of the few CC specialist units I wouldn't mind throwing Wyches against.  And I don't think Wyches are that great at CC.  Personally, I can think of better ways to spend 180 points. But it could work if the rest of your army is scary enough.  And it is doing MSU very well. Try it and see.
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