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goofydk
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PostSubject: Jetbikes assault move   Wed Oct 29 2014, 15:30

Hey!

Got a question about Eldar jetbike assault move, I dont have the rulebook infront of me now, but I was playing a game yesterday and I was sure that I could only assault move (2d6?) in the same direction that I had moved in the movement phase, just cant find that rule anywhere.. Not sure where I got it from, was it in 6th ed?
My opponent was kind enough to tell me that I could assault move in any direction. Wasnt getting into combat just needed the extra movement.

Thanks!
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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Jetbikes assault move   Wed Oct 29 2014, 15:35

I can not recall any rule like that in previous editions, it is certainly not a rule currently.

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Anterzhul
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PostSubject: Re: Jetbikes assault move   Wed Oct 29 2014, 16:15

Can confirm that that was not in 6th, nor that it's the case now

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goofydk
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PostSubject: Re: Jetbikes assault move   Wed Oct 29 2014, 16:23

Ok cool thanks, no idea where I got it from.
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merse24
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PostSubject: Re: Jetbikes assault move   Wed Oct 29 2014, 16:28

Eldar Jetbikes do have an assault move.

If you do not turbo boost in the shooting phase you can move 2D6" in the assault phase. You may not charge after making this move. Direction of movement is not mentioned however, so I would assume that you can move in any direction that you want.
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Laughingcarp
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PostSubject: Re: Jetbikes assault move   Wed Oct 29 2014, 17:29

Could be thinking of turbo-boosting Flyers or running FMCs, they have to go in the same direction as movement phase.

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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Jetbikes assault move   Wed Oct 29 2014, 23:13

Quote :
You may not charge after making this move.

While I am not a fan of abusing rules, this one is interesting. I have found nothing that prohibits assaulting after moving in the assault phase.

BRB

If they do not Turbo-boost, Eldar Jetbikes may move up to 2D6" in the Assault phase, even if they have shot in the preceding Shooting phase or arrived by Deep Strike that turn. When Eldar Jetbikes move in the Assault phase and do not charge, they treat difficult terrain in the same way as they do in the Movement phase.

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Laughingcarp
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PostSubject: Re: Jetbikes assault move   Wed Oct 29 2014, 23:28

Whoa.
Has anyone ever seen this interpreted this way in a batrep or anything?

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Anterzhul
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PostSubject: Re: Jetbikes assault move   Thu Oct 30 2014, 08:04

Note that the jetpack thrust move specifically states that you cannot both thrust move and charge. So unless the order of operations prohibits it, I'd say yes, RAW, you can assault move AND charge

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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: Jetbikes assault move   Thu Oct 30 2014, 08:25

Don't have my rule book to hand but doesn't the order of operations require you to declare charges at the start of the phase?

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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Jetbikes assault move   Thu Oct 30 2014, 08:42

But there is nothing saying that you cannot make that move during "declare charge" subphase...

EDIT: Correction - It clearly states: "Eldar Jetbikes may move up to 2D6" in the Assault phase"

UP TO means that they cannot move any further. Once you roll 2D6 for your move, be it charge or outside charge, you are done for the whole assault phase.
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skullmonkeyz
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PostSubject: Re: Jetbikes assault move   Thu Oct 30 2014, 09:33

@Klaivex Charondyr wrote:


When Eldar Jetbikes move in the Assault phase and do not charge, they treat difficult terrain in the same way as they do in the Movement phase.


All this does is tell us that you would have to make a dangerous terrain test when doing the jetbike move, whereas when charging you don't, but have to subtract 2" from your rolled charge distance when going through difficult terrain. Pretty plain and simple i'd say.
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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Jetbikes assault move   Thu Oct 30 2014, 12:10

@skullmonkeyz wrote:
@Klaivex Charondyr wrote:


When Eldar Jetbikes move in the Assault phase and do not charge, they treat difficult terrain in the same way as they do in the Movement phase.


All this does is tell us that you would have to make a dangerous terrain test when doing the jetbike move, whereas when charging you don't, but have to subtract 2" from your rolled charge distance when going through difficult terrain. Pretty plain and simple i'd say.

That is not the point.
It mentions quite clearly that you may not move flat out. It doesnt mention that this move is instead of charging.

The only other unit that is able to do that (Jet pack) explicitly mentions that this move is instead of charging.

A Jet Pack unit that is not locked in combat or charging can move up to 2D6" in the Assault phase, even if they have shot or Run in the preceding Shooting phase or arrived by Deep Strike that turn. When Jet Pack units move in the Assault phase and do not charge, they move just as they would when using their jet packs in the Movement phase.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Jetbikes assault move   Thu Oct 30 2014, 12:17

I tend to agree. There is nothing to indicate that the assault phase move is only useable in place of a charge move. I'd never thought about it before but the wording is silent on any restrictions other than "iIf they do not Turboboost".

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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: Jetbikes assault move   Thu Oct 30 2014, 12:19

@Count Adhemar wrote:
I tend to agree. There is nothing to indicate that the assault phase move is only useable in place of a charge move. I'd never thought about it before but the wording is silent on any restrictions other than "iIf they do not Turboboost".

One for the FAQ, Count?

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Jetbikes assault move   Thu Oct 30 2014, 12:23

@The_Burning_Eye wrote:
@Count Adhemar wrote:
I tend to agree. There is nothing to indicate that the assault phase move is only useable in place of a charge move. I'd never thought about it before but the wording is silent on any restrictions other than "iIf they do not Turboboost".

One for the FAQ, Count?

Aye. Added it in.

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skullmonkeyz
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PostSubject: Re: Jetbikes assault move   Thu Oct 30 2014, 16:58

So i can also make my jetbike move when locked in combat during the assault phase, because it doesn't prohibit me from doing so while it explicitly states that a thrust move cannot be made while locked in combat?
You can't just go with the "permissive ruleset" argument when you feel like it, and don't if it would better suit your needs not to i'm afraid.
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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Jetbikes assault move   Thu Oct 30 2014, 17:49

Quote :
So i can also make my jetbike move when locked in combat during the assault phase, because it doesn't prohibit me from doing so while it explicitly states that a thrust move cannot be made while locked in combat?

Obviously, as the "Locked in Combat" Ruleset only mentions that shooting, movement in the movement phase and running in the shooting phase is forbidden.

As I said. Im full on your side that this is not RAI.
The problem is that it is a poorly written ruleset that causes a condundrum and has to be adressed.

Here is another one:

If i have a character next to a unit firing overwatch at his unit (his charge roll is enough to get him into B2B), he gets hit a few times and passes every "LOS" Test. 3 Models are removed as a result, he is out of squad coherency and the charge distance rolled is not enough to get his squad back into coherency with him. What happens?
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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Jetbikes assault move   Thu Oct 30 2014, 19:27

@Klaivex Charondyr wrote:
If i have a character next to a unit firing overwatch at his unit (his charge roll is enough to get him into B2B), he gets hit a few times and passes every "LOS" Test. 3 Models are removed as a result, he is out of squad coherency and the charge distance rolled is not enough to get his squad back into coherency with him. What happens?
That one is easy, per page 166 - he would remain a part of the unit because he did not leave it during his movement phase. They would move in closer at their initiative step as their unit is in assault.

If it was a character as opposed to an independent character, it is also easy, they would move in closer at their initiative step as their unit is in assault.

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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Jetbikes assault move   Thu Oct 30 2014, 19:32

Yes he would remain part on the unit, that is correct. Thats not the problem as he just could split up in the movement phase.

This one is:

A charging model must end its charge move in unit coherency with another model in its own unit that has already moved.


The character fulfills his qualifications so the charge is successful, the squad does not meet the qualifications so the charge is unsuccessful at the same time.
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PostSubject: Re: Jetbikes assault move   Thu Oct 30 2014, 19:42

If his rolled assault distance is not enough to move any of the rest of his unit into coherency with him then the other models would not be allowed to move until their initiative step pile in.

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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Jetbikes assault move   Thu Oct 30 2014, 20:02

Quote :
If his rolled assault distance is not enough to move any of the rest of his unit into coherency with him then the other models would not be allowed to move until their initiative step pile in.

Where do you read that?
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PostSubject: Re: Jetbikes assault move   Thu Oct 30 2014, 20:19

Page 48 last bullet point.

During the charge models have to stay in coherency with a model that already moved, so if they cannot end their move in coherency then they cannot move.

During Init pile in they are allowed to, as a last resort, 'move as close as possible'. This move is not restricted by coherency despite following the charging rules since no models are actively charging anymore so there is no 'charging model' to restrict coherency rules.

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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Jetbikes assault move   Thu Oct 30 2014, 20:49

This does still not help for the charge rules as they state:

• A charging model must end its charge move in unit coherency with another model in its own unit that has already moved.

If they do not move they do not fullfill the "must end in coherency" requirement which is a requirement for a successful charge.
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PostSubject: Re: Jetbikes assault move   Thu Oct 30 2014, 21:38

Yes, a charging model must do that.

An initiative pile in model does not.

Also, even if you think it does - it can only matter if the IC is going at the same init step *and* has to move - if either of those aren't fulfilled then even if you think a pile in counts as charging then it still wouldn't effect the ability to pile in units out of coherency.

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