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 New Dark Eldar Player Asks for Help!

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jwg20
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PostSubject: New Dark Eldar Player Asks for Help!    Tue Aug 23 2011, 18:14

Hey all,

So I have been playing warhammer Fantasy on and off for 10 years (playing high elves and daemons). I recently decided I was going to branch into 40k. Looking around at the armies, I decided that Dark Elves fit my style. You see, I love speed in my armies, and from what I hear and have read, Dark Eldar are the fastest out there!

So, as to how you can help me: What is a good thing to start out with? I love themed lists, so I was thinking of a gladatorial games army, with beastmasters, witches, some jetbikes (though I hear jetbikes are poor?) and stuff like that. I was feeling getting a battalion box to start, and maybe a box or two of elites and fast support (and a tank of some form along with an HQ). I normally start out with armies by buying a lot at once and then adding on rather than buying slowly over time. Ideally, my first purchases would give me a workable army that I can add onto to get up to 2k-2.5k pts.

So what are your opinions of a good starting point that would also be useful at 2.5k?

Also of note, the top player at my local store is a daemonhunter. He has become so cocky during games that, rather than take a more friendly list to make it fair, he always gives his opponent an extra 250-500 pts over him and still tables them with his tourney army. I am a little sick of that cockiness, and would like to give him a burst of humility ASAP.

Thanks!
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GAR
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Player Asks for Help!    Tue Aug 23 2011, 18:58

Let me first start off by saying welcome.

Second, Dark Eldar are not a plug and play army. There is no such thing as a single web list that will always work because we have the best codex out there.

The DE codex has so many builds and options, you first really need to figure out which type of DE list you think you want.

In brief you have

kabals
Wych Cults
Covens

These are broken further into the type of play
Skimmer/Mech based
Foot
WWP

And all the hybrids versions thereof.

You can go shooting heavy
Close combat heavy
Mix of they two

For my 2 cents
the Battalion is a great start, you could buy 2 and not have a wasted model in the whole box.

From there it breaks down into playstyle and how you want to build your list.

You might check out the army lists and see which appeals to you or check out the real space raids for some ideas.

But again, your "where do I start" is a pretty big and broad question for DE, even in a competitive build.

And lastly, DE dictate the flow of the game. You do not want to be reacting to anything. You want to make your opponent have to chose which of his units die first.
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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Player Asks for Help!    Tue Aug 23 2011, 19:22

jwg20 wrote:
Also of note, the top player at my local store is a daemonhunter. He has become so cocky during games that, rather than take a more friendly list to make it fair, he always gives his opponent an extra 250-500 pts over him and still tables them with his tourney army. I am a little sick of that cockiness, and would like to give him a burst of humility ASAP.
Neutral
You guys don't have a mech IG player to curbstomp him with - or even a Wolf Razorspam list? Jeez, mech IG +500 points - I'd take those odds any day.

They'd still be pretty nice odds while using DE, quite frankly.

Though frankly if he's a dweeb about it I'd probably stop playing him and just let him go play actually competitive players who will happily hurt him and his army.

If you can, toss up his super list and I'll pick it over and give you advice for dismantling via DE.
---------------------------

To your core discussion - your theme sounds fine and fun, though I will caution theme is not the best tool for competitive play.

The best starting place I can think of, as GAR noted, is the DE Battleforce box - it's probably the best value GW has on a Battlebox right now. The Bikes might not be used much, but even if you just use them for bits they're valuable.

Another really good purchase is 3x Ravagers - this is almost a default addition to any DE list, and if you want to go Wych Cult it will be the only Heavy Slot you'll want to take unless you feel like messing with WWP (which I would probably advise against).

For HQs, with Wych Cult, I'd suggest either Haems or playing around with an Archon - I'd tend to suggest Haems as they are pretty much a solid option in any DE list out there.

Hope that helps.
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Local_Ork
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Player Asks for Help!    Tue Aug 23 2011, 19:50

As for 3 Ravager advice - yep. Not only You can use them as default kit, but since they are basically Raiders kits with additional bits sprue. You can use them as Raiders after removal of side turrets.
Additional bits are good thing if You want to give Your regular Riders additional sails and rams.

Next (or actually first) thing should be Haemonculus, it is in nearly 90% of lists since it's good HQ. Cheap, can be taken multiple times, with neat upgrades (he is "utility man" in our codex).
Box of Warriors should be next. Or two. Not only You may use them as Warriors, but they may be Trueborn and with little of work You may made cheap Scourges (and these are good Fast Attack).
Also Wyches, You just can't go wrong with girls. Especially with 4++ in CC.
I would also try to get some Venoms and some Raiders. People often forget that what is good for one unit, is bad for another. On and You get additional models Troop with them (I hate guys hanging from sides).
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jwg20
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Player Asks for Help!    Wed Aug 24 2011, 10:48

Thanks a lot guys for all your help. I will probably start with 2x battalion, a Haem, and 3x ravager for a good start. Ideally, I will also find some extra cash for an elite combat unit in a venom or something.

About playstyle: how I basically imagine my army to go is to have a fire support wing and an attack wing. The attack wing will advance full speed towards one area of the board to eliminate any unit in that area of the board before the opponent can give them aid (so elite combat troops required here, probably in venoms because I hear they are faster by the rules? I could be crazy here though), while the fire support wing advances more cautiously and gives them covering fire in the vicinity of the strike (taking out tanks and infantry nearby). Then the attack wing will move on to another area. I plan to chip away at the enemy army in this way, one to two units at a time with focused force. This sound like a legit strategy? (it seems from my first time through the book that we have the speed to pull something like this off, but I could be wrong). And if it is possible, what type of "themed" list best fits that type of build and what of our combat troops are "elite" enough to pull that off?

Thanks again guys! Just trying to get an idea of where I'm going so I have a better idea of where to start.
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Raneth
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Player Asks for Help!    Wed Aug 24 2011, 14:46

jwg20 wrote:
Ideally, I will also find some extra cash for an elite combat unit in a venom or something.

The way things are right now, better spend your money on extra Blaster bitz. Laughing

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GAR
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Player Asks for Help!    Wed Aug 24 2011, 14:59

I converted a few splinter rifles and Shredders into blasters by using the blast pistol tips and the tips of the blasters from reavers. it worked out pretty decent and was a simple conversion.

Playstyle.

My experience is you can't really wait. You need to be wrecking things as soon as possible.

The attackwing idea is sound, and so is the support wing, however I get the impression you intend to have part/half of your army sit and back and try to support. This is a sound strategy for Ravagers, but the rest of your force, depending on how you build it, should be geared to attack.

Raiders with wyches, for example, you shoot up the table, drop off the wyches and then if they are around next turn back off the raiders to snip at whatever threat they can target.

Venoms, depending on what they carry, will do the same or move a little more slowly so the riders can shoot, such as you would do with Trueborn. I hate to drop off my true born, but sometimes I need to.

Also, this is the kind of the hard part is picking your battles. KNowing what unit needs to go where and when to back off is a bit of a steep learning curve. Sure wyches can put soem hurt on regular tactical marines, but tactical marines can absolutely own wyches or warriors with rapidfire bolters. So you need to be sure you can get the assault and be equally sure you won't get gunned down and wiped out before and after the combat.

There is a lot more, but this can help you to get started thinking about what and why.


Last edited by GAR on Wed Aug 24 2011, 15:33; edited 1 time in total
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GAR
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Player Asks for Help!    Wed Aug 24 2011, 15:25

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Last edited by GAR on Wed Aug 24 2011, 16:23; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Accidental double post. Please delete)
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Local_Ork
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PostSubject: Re: New Dark Eldar Player Asks for Help!    Wed Aug 24 2011, 17:30

Note that DE are "general army" which may be problematic at start (maybe not as Orks, but You aren't so mistakeproof as FNP 3+ armies). If You have some models I totally advice You "proxing" (also known as "count as") with biggest 40k badass in Your area*.
Learning in hard way is most beneficial. You probably gonna got Your buttocks served on silver plate until turn 2-3, but I've learned many useful "tricks" for my Orks that way (like "never, ever get from cover" or "Grot-block, then charge with Boyz") in really short time.

Also, try to not stick with one tactic since sooner or later people would know Your plan and win, just because they will remember Your "know-how".

Also, don't be afraid to try "nonstandard" units and tactics. In worst case, You gonna lose game or two, big deal. In best... well, my Warpheads have 99 problems but Land Raiders ain't one, oi!
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