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Andy140491
Hellion


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Join date : 2012-02-02

PostSubject: Back to 40k.   Tue Oct 28 2014, 07:40

Hey guys.

The last time. I played 40k was just before any of the new fliers came out. I've come back to wanting to either play Dark eldar or Orks.

Now all I've heard since looking into it, is constant bashing of the new Dark eldar. Are they seriously as bad as the online poison says they are?!

I'm buying an army tomorrow. Spending about $800 on one. Can someone shed a little light on this for me please? ?
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valmir
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PostSubject: Re: Back to 40k.   Tue Oct 28 2014, 07:42

They are absolutely not as bad as the internet hate might suggest. That said, they are not exactly the most powerful army out there.

Probably about on par with Orks, I'd say.
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Andy140491
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PostSubject: Re: Back to 40k.   Tue Oct 28 2014, 07:47

The rate people go on, you'd assume they're nigh on unplayable. I don't want a power army that's going to win me every game.

The reason I liked dark eldar is they seemed like a fragile. Hard hitting fast army. I've now been told they aren't hard hitting. More like a fast wet noodle.

I mean I do love the variety orks can give you in playing terms. I just know so little about dark eldar it's hard to make a decision :/
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Fauxmonculus
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PostSubject: Re: Back to 40k.   Tue Oct 28 2014, 08:21

A friend of mine plays Orks. When their last codex came out there was plenty of internet hate for them, too. My friend couldn't understand it - his Orks were still fun to play, and some things had been improved.

IMO it's much the same with Dark Eldar. They're still a fun army with some fantastic models, and all the hate is putting people like yourself off playing them, which isn't good for anyone.

However, this is not to say there aren't stronger armies out there that are easier to win with - there are.
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Andy140491
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PostSubject: Re: Back to 40k.   Tue Oct 28 2014, 08:23

If I wanted an easy time winning I'd play eldar or tau Wink

I like the fact that you need tactical prowess to win. It's just the rate people ramble on, you'd think dark eldar are useless. I think I'll stick with them. They look awesome.
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aurynn
Incubi


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Join date : 2013-04-23

PostSubject: Re: Back to 40k.   Tue Oct 28 2014, 08:55

Good or bad is a matter of perspective. DE are tactically challenging, they have some pronounced drawbacks, but they surely have tools to make any army's life miserable. They might not be the best stand-alone choice for the total top of the comp scene, but they just need a little help from our CWE cousins to get there IMHO. And for normal play they are real fun!

As for not hard hitting... They can hit like a Hulk, but thinking that spamming the most obvious choices will do that trick is simply wrong. They dont fight like other armies. Their most important turn does not have to be T1.

Also fragility is a matter of perspective. The points-worth amount of shooting that is needed to bring down a Raider is bigger than a Land Raider compared to the laughably low points-worth of the Raider, while we can bring the LR down quite easily in 1 turn. How fragile is something you cant catch? :-)

Yea it is a bit of pep-talk, but true nonetheless. I enjoy my Dark Kin and if you want to play army that irritates and infuriates your enemy to no end, with possible jaw-dropping, and gleeful laugh on your side, this is the army for you. :-)
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Andy140491
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PostSubject: Re: Back to 40k.   Tue Oct 28 2014, 09:09

The only issue is. I don't play competitively. .. and I don't want to ally? Is that an issue?
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aurynn
Incubi


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PostSubject: Re: Back to 40k.   Tue Oct 28 2014, 09:17

Absolutely not any issue at all. You will lack some mass mid-strength (6-7) shooting, but have melee options for it. You will lack high armour saves, but have good and cheap vehicles and mobility instead.

As for not playing comp - I consider comp even a meta that plays strong lists that would be good even on tourneys. But in friendly environment everything is playable. Most of the army's strength is in your head and dont let anyone tell you otherwise. :-)

I am now considering allying Eldar, but because i will be going against some really really nasty Forgeworld stuff and against much better player than I am. But it is not needed.
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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: Back to 40k.   Tue Oct 28 2014, 09:24

1. Best model range in the game.
2. Shooting is powerful (anyone who tells you different clearly hasn't seen first hand how many S8 AP2 lances you can fit into an army if you want to, or how many splinter cannons we can bring to bear if you want to spam them)
3. Viable thematic armies (Hero is a good example of an ultra competitive pure DE army, Coven themed armies are also very strong right now, you can build an army around Deep Striking reserves to name but 3 options)

Many of the comments criticising the codex are not so much about what the army can do, but can be attributed to how there are less army-specific special rules. This has been a common theme from 7th edition codex releases though, which are making wider use of special rules from the main rulebook to represent army-specific effects. The result is that players spend less time explaining special rules to opponents during the game. As an example, reavers used to have a specific type of attack called bladevanes that allowed them to cause casualties from moving over an enemy unit in the shooting phase. I had to explain this on many occasions to different players during the course of a game. That rule has now been removed and replaced with Hammer of Wrath. Because this is in the main rulebook, all I now have to do is tell people they get Strength X Hammer of Wrath, and they understand.

I personally like this streamlining, but I know there are a lot of people who think it detracts from the uniqueness of the army.

It's better to look awesome and lose than win and look ugly (unless you only play the game to win and don't care about having fun)

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Andy140491
Hellion


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PostSubject: Re: Back to 40k.   Tue Oct 28 2014, 09:26

This forum is so helpful Smile I really am glad that you guys are here .. I was just wondering if you might be able to answer a question ... I was stuck between dark eldar and orks.

Can you tell me why YOU would play Dark eldar over orks? Not from an aesthetic point of view. But from a gaming point of view?
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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: Back to 40k.   Tue Oct 28 2014, 09:40

My own beef with orks is mainly the aesthetic and painting green.

Having only played them once since their new codex, I'd say that the 'mob rule' really hampers one particular playstyle that otherwise would work well for them - orks are made to charge into assault and the quickest way to do that is to mount them on trukks. However, trukk mobs are small and if you can force failed morale tests on them (something we should not struggle with) then they start taking casualties from those already small units to pass the test (for example if they fail a morale check by 3, they'll kill 3 orks but count as having passed the morale check. Once you add in the casualties that forced the check in the first place you've reduced the unit by at least 60%).

Oh yeah, and in an edition of the rules where shooting is favoured over assault, having the majority of your army as BS2 does not help...

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lessthanjeff
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PostSubject: Re: Back to 40k.   Tue Oct 28 2014, 10:05

Andy140491 wrote:
This forum is so helpful Smile I really am glad that you guys are here .. I was just wondering if you might be able to answer a question ... I was stuck between dark eldar and orks.

Can you tell me why YOU would play Dark eldar over orks? Not from an aesthetic point of view. But from a gaming point of view?

For me, it feels more like a tactical game of chess maneuvering my fleet around the table. I love the mobility and range of the dark eldar army, and the kabalite elements match my playstyle very well. It's also nice that you have the variety of mixing in coven elements that hit hard and are tough as nails as well. A good variety in the book imo.

I like orks and may one day make them, but I don't look forward to painting literally hundreds of models and then having to move 70 pieces every turn in the game.
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Fauxmonculus
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PostSubject: Re: Back to 40k.   Tue Oct 28 2014, 10:20

I like to hit first, hit hard and preferably avoid taking casualties.

I also like to have a couple of Razorwings zoom on, drop four large blasts on a squad each, and zoom off again before my opponent knows what's hit them.

I like making outrageous flickerfield saves and then flying off to capture an objective with my AV10 2HP transport that by all rights should just have exploded messily.

I like Orks - I like the fact that they're just about the only race that's having a good time - but I know soaking up casualties all the way across the board wouldn't suit me at all.
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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: Back to 40k.   Tue Oct 28 2014, 10:25

Orks would use a sledgehammer to crack a nut. DE are more likely to convince the nut that its life isn't worth living just so they can watch it commit suicide.

In that respect I'd definitely say the DE are having fun - that's pretty much their raison d'etre.

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Andy140491
Hellion


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PostSubject: Re: Back to 40k.   Tue Oct 28 2014, 13:00

I really can't thank you guys enough Smile it's been giving me a cracking headache trying to decide and you've definitely made my mind up Smile you guys are ace! Seriously can't wait to start painting them.

I was going to paint the a dark red with vibrant green masks. But the red primer has sold out :/ you can only get MCragge blue and fang grey. I have bought two cans of incubi darkness so Im gonna do em dark blue with light blue details Smile
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Fauxmonculus
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PostSubject: Re: Back to 40k.   Tue Oct 28 2014, 14:45

If you want red primer, try Army Painter. I've used their Pure Red spray and it's good, though probably a bit bright for the Dark Eldar! Dragon Red might work, maybe with a wash of something to darken it down though.
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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: Back to 40k.   Tue Oct 28 2014, 14:54

Fauxmonculus wrote:
If you want red primer, try Army Painter. I've used their Pure Red spray and it's good, though probably a bit bright for the Dark Eldar! Dragon Red might work, maybe with a wash of something to darken it down though.

Just be very careful applying it, it goes on thicker than GW spray and can obscure detail I find if you're not really careful.

I've tried three different sprays now, GW, Army Painter and Army Issue (basically £1 per 100ml, only comes in 250ml cans though). GW is easily the best of the three (though not free from occasional bad batches, i got two cans once that were mainly propellant, i might has well have undercoated the models with nuln oil!)

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My Blog - The Burning Eye Blog (check it out - comments always welcome)

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Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
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PostSubject: Re: Back to 40k.   Tue Oct 28 2014, 15:00

My last can of Army Painter Spray Primer went on so badly that I ended up having to bin the models. That being said, I've used many other cans of their spray and not had any problems.

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commandersasha
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PostSubject: Re: Back to 40k.   Tue Oct 28 2014, 15:16

My DE are all primed with Army Painter Bright Red, and I love it! My models jump off the table at you in glorious reds, golds and fleshtones. Mind you, I am not representing them as Official GW Dark Eldar, but as a splendid pirate fleet, slapping thighboots and buckling their swashes!

I don't think grimdark; I use the Dark Eldar codex for my pirate girls because I like the idea of a fast, fragile cheeky army; My leader (was Archon, now Succubus) is a ballet dancer with a sword, not a gorilla with a hammer!
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Wych
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PostSubject: Re: Back to 40k.   Tue Oct 28 2014, 16:57

Glad you went with DE. It's funny because Orks are the army that drew me into 40K but once I found out about Dark Eldar I was hooked. Orks are having fun sure, but it's stupid fun. I picture Commorragh to be like Chicago in the 1920s, only instead of Chicago, it's Las Vegas. Sounds a lot more fun, than fighting over teef in a tent in a hot jungle.

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False Son
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PostSubject: Re: Back to 40k.   Tue Oct 28 2014, 17:22

[quote="The_Burning_Eye"]
Fauxmonculus wrote:
If you want red primer, try Army Painter. I've I've tried three different sprays now, GW, Army Painter and Army Issue (basically £1 per 100ml, only comes in 250ml cans though). GW is easily the best of the three (though not free from occasional bad batches, i got two cans once that were mainly propellant, i might has well have undercoated the models with nuln oil!)

The Army Painter colors I find are more similar to GW's legacy colors, blood read and bleached bone. The old sprays were different than their bottled versions. This was a huge annoyance when they were discontinued.
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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: Back to 40k.   Wed Oct 29 2014, 19:21

The cheapest airbrush is better then any spray can. It will make painting incredibly easier at all points, especially during skimmer painting, you'l wonder how is it you have painted without it.

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