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 I actually LIKE the new Codex!

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Fauxmonculus
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PostSubject: I actually LIKE the new Codex!   Sat Oct 25 2014, 19:56

There, I said it. Smile

Disclaimer: I'm not a tournament player, and I'm not saying anyone ELSE has to like it, but I do!

I didn't have high hopes for the new Codex after reading all the pre-release rumours, and I know it's disappointed many here, but I've played several games now and I'm having a lot of fun.

Highlights for me:

1. The new Power from Pain. A lot of the time with the last Codex, I ended up winning games with hardly any pain tokens as the damage was being done by Venoms, Ravagers and Razorwings, so I didn't often get to enjoy the benefits.  Now, not only are things much simpler, but it feels like your options expand as the game goes on.

2. Six Fast Attack slots, and the Razorwing being moved there.  Previously my pair of Razorwings would be fighting with my pair of Ravagers for those three Heavy Support slots, and my Talos and Cronos would never get a look in.  I know I could have gone double force org, but I still like this change.

3. The changes to Reavers.  I liked the idea of Bladevaning, but I'd always end up landing somewhere a flamer could do horrible things to me.  I took a squad of six with two Heat Lances, Caltrops and an Agoniser against Space Wolves last night and they were amazing.  I've always been wary of throwing them into close combat before but now they seem to be something my opponent actually needs to worry about.

4. The Haemonculus Covens supplement.  I've only used the Scalpel Squadron and Dark Artisan formations so far, but they've been great - and finally given me a good excuse to use my Talos and Cronos models.  Compared to some of the other supplements I've seen, in my opinion this one is very good.

5. The Talos no longer having random attacks.  This is a personal thing, because I would almost always roll a 1.  Unless I took Chain Flails, in which case I rolled double 1s.  Being assured of a decent number of attacks means I'm much more likely to take my Talos in future.

There is of course stuff I don't like so much:

1. The Archon.  I miss the AP2 Huskblade and the old PGL.  He doesn't work well with my Incubi any more, so I've replaced him with a Succubus - and I think the new Succubus model is another highlight.

2. Flickerfields being Venom-only. I used to take these across the board and I never regretted it.

3. Wracks being minimum five now.  I'd assumed I could still run four in a Venom with a Haemonculus, and bought two Venoms accordingly.  At least they're useful for the Scalpel Squadron formation.

4. S3 Liquifiers.

The other thing I'd like to say is that even the stuff that's bad - it's not THAT bad.  Things might be different if you're a competitive player, but to me nothing's out and out useless.  I'm not going to try to argue that small Wych squads are in any way good, but in my last game I ran two, in Venoms, both with Hekatrixes with Blast Pistols and Agonisers (because that's how I've had them modelled since the 5th Ed Codex) and they were useful.  Even Mandrakes have uses now. Smile

Anyway, that's it.  Feel free to tell me I'm wrong, but I just wanted to show that someone's having fun with the new Codex!
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PostSubject: Re: I actually LIKE the new Codex!   Sat Oct 25 2014, 20:49

This sums up my feelings on the new 'dex:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QOpY0LAI2I

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PostSubject: Re: I actually LIKE the new Codex!   Sat Oct 25 2014, 20:51

@Fauxmonculus wrote:
Things might be different if you're a competitive player, but to me nothing's out and out useless.
Obviously things are different the more competitive you'd like to be, that's the nature of the game. That's the nature of a lot of games. I also don't think many people are calling much useless, the general mantra is 'not good' or 'terrible' which is probably true about many of the items so titled.

I would say that The Orbs of Despair are useless though.

...well, I guess they have a use of instant-deathing T1-3 models with multiple wounds that aren't swarm.

I can't think of anything like that right now, but I'm sure there's something.

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Creeping Darkness
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PostSubject: Re: I actually LIKE the new Codex!   Sat Oct 25 2014, 23:46

I like that Power from Pain will help me out against parking lots and giant blobs that I could only ever have collected four or five pain tokens from.

I like that I can paint some Mandrakes and think that I might, maybe, use them one time.

I don't like the way our options became narrower.

I really don't like the way our wargear and weapons are siloed. Would it have been overpowered to give Kabalites access to haywire blasters and heat lances? Wyches access to venom blades, or blasters? Someone access to haywire grenades? And what, Commorragh has a shortage of plasma grenades now?

I also don't like the way that Craftworld Eldar seem to be able to do things better than we can. Compare Soulshrive to soul trap. Death spinners to shredders. Vector Dancer... :mad

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Grimcrimm
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PostSubject: Re: I actually LIKE the new Codex!   Sun Oct 26 2014, 00:12

Things i dislike reavers being less fun

having only one troop option (get it? get it!)

things i like reavers being the best thing since sliced bread

i hated their change but now i love these guys

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PostSubject: Re: I actually LIKE the new Codex!   Sun Oct 26 2014, 00:26

I actually like the new codex too. Basically because it simplified things and really gave some specific dynamics to the Dark Eldar.
The new PfP is huge, together with the new combat drugs.
Finally I don't have to worry any more about my drug roll. I did get an awful lot of super running drugs.

The PfP now rewards your army for surviving into the next turn. That is our main difference with Eldar. Dark Eldar want the biggest thrill out of the combat and that's why they don't bring all their fancy stuff to Realspace.

On top of the army wide rules Grotesques and Reavers have gotten a serious boost. Scourges are useful now; heck even mandrakes can be.
Warriors, Incubi, Reavers and Hellions got cheaper. All but the latter units are now viable as long as you don't play Tourneys level.

Also the Cover Supplement is great.
Oh dear God how do I hope for a similar Wych Supplement with only the Arena units: Wyches, Bloodbrides, Hellions, Beasts and Reavers. All but the latter can use a boost to be more competitive.
A special assault PfP or a re-roll on drugs and as second special rule a 5+ cover save in the charge sub-phase (read: overwatch) to boost all but Reavers.
And some cool Formations.

...
OK
I'll stop I'm almost drooling from wish-listing :p
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barenone
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PostSubject: Re: I actually LIKE the new Codex!   Mon Oct 27 2014, 15:03

I love the new codex. I do say i miss a lot of the messed up fun stuff we had but that's life.
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PostSubject: Re: I actually LIKE the new Codex!   Mon Oct 27 2014, 15:21

@Creeping Darkness wrote:
I like that Power from Pain will help me out against parking lots and
I really don't like the way our wargear and weapons are siloed. Would it have been overpowered to give Kabalites access to haywire blasters and heat lances?

While the option might have been nice, would it have been of actual use?  The HWB problem that Scourges have would be compounded.  At least with a Dark Lance it can be used against TEQs and MCs.  And Heat Lances?  An option against Blasters and Shredders?  Because competing against Dark Lances i'd pick the Lance's range and strength every time.

Quote :
Wyches access to venom blades, or blasters? Someone access to haywire grenades? And what, Commorragh has a shortage of plasma grenades now?

Sadly, plasma grenades are one of the primary advantages that Wyches have over other units.  I'd like the Wych weapons to be better.  That would satisfy me.  Upgrades that are unique to a unit should be impressive, not meh.

Quote :
I also don't like the way that Craftworld Eldar seem to be able to do things better than we can. Compare Soulshrive to soul trap. Death spinners to shredders. Vector Dancer... :mad

ICs on jetbikes.  Absolute nonsense that Reavers come from the Arenas but you can't put a Wych HQ (Succubus) on a Reaver Jetbike, while Eldar can be.  DE HQs are one of the few that are stuck with their basic movement profile.  I consider Craftworld Eldar to be a hiccup in the Studio's track record (generally better of late... at least countering accusations of codex creep).  But, do they talk to one another?  Did the DE playtesters ever face an Eldar army?

I'm still taking it all in.  Not sure where my opinion falls when all is said and done.
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PostSubject: Re: I actually LIKE the new Codex!   Mon Oct 27 2014, 15:31

@False Son wrote:
Did the DE playtesters ever face an Eldar army?

Ahh, I see where you're going wrong. You think GW actually has playtesters! Very Happy Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: I actually LIKE the new Codex!   Mon Oct 27 2014, 15:31

@False Son wrote:

I consider Craftworld Eldar to be a hiccup in the Studio's track record (generally better of late... at least countering accusations of codex creep).  

This is very much my opinion, I think that Eldar will get an early updated codex once BA and Crons are done, and we'll see them reined back into line with most of the other 7th ed codices.


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Jehoel
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PostSubject: Re: I actually LIKE the new Codex!   Mon Oct 27 2014, 17:00

Another Thing is Their battlereflex rule. Amazingly powerfull, but all fluff States that DE are actually even faster than Their Craftworld cousins, so I would like that one too please (not really since I Think its a bit broken but something similar to illustrate how fast the true kin are even without their bikes and transports. A +1 or an upgraded +2 to any fleet / terrain / charge Roll maybe)

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PostSubject: Re: I actually LIKE the new Codex!   Mon Oct 27 2014, 17:17

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@False Son wrote:
Did the DE playtesters ever face an Eldar army?

Ahh, I see where you're going wrong. You think GW actually has playtesters! Very Happy Very Happy

I do.  However, I believe they are a bunch of yes men like the rest of the Studio.  Self congradulating back slappers.
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PostSubject: Re: I actually LIKE the new Codex!   Mon Oct 27 2014, 20:42

@Jehoel wrote:
Another Thing is Their battlereflex rule. Amazingly powerfull, but all fluff States that DE are actually even faster than Their Craftworld cousins, so I would like that one too please (not really since I Think its a bit broken but something similar to illustrate how fast the true kin are even without their bikes and transports. A +1 or an upgraded +2 to any fleet / terrain / charge Roll maybe)

I suspect you're talking about battle focus here. To me, the point of the ability isn't the inherent speed of the Eldar, but on their ability to put aside all distractions and focus on what they are doing. Dark Eldar are not particularly good at this when you consider how much they're literally thirsting for those kills and letting their wants and desires affect them.

Rules wise, each army basically gets one fairly standard special rule across their army like ATSKNF, Battle Focus, Power from Pain, Faith, etc. I think we'd have to give up Power from Pain to claim Battle Focus and quite frankly, I think I'd rather keep the Pain. Having both wouldn't be fair to the Eldar.
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PostSubject: Re: I actually LIKE the new Codex!   Mon Oct 27 2014, 21:09

Focus yes. Its been a while since I Read the codex.

I agree that more special rules would make it unfair. But maybe make it unit specific. Wyches would surely benefit, especially since they suffered in other areas...

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Creeping Darkness
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PostSubject: Re: I actually LIKE the new Codex!   Mon Oct 27 2014, 21:14

@False Son wrote:
While the option might have been nice, would it have been of actual use? The HWB problem that Scourges have would be compounded. At least with a Dark Lance it can be used against TEQs and MCs. And Heat Lances? An option against Blasters and Shredders? Because competing against Dark Lances i'd pick the Lance's range and strength every time.

I was hoping to have the option to take a heat lance or haywire blaster instead of a blaster or shredder, ie the choice between the four, but I could see trying out the heat lance as a tenth man in an aggressive mid-board Raider squad.

I suppose I get annoyed that Imperial factions get an all you can eat smorgasbord of weapon options on every squad in every book, while we're stuck in the token dietary intolerance section of the bar. Kabalites only get a couple of guns because they're gluten intolerant or something.

Of course, Eldar Aspect warriors have strictly defined wargear that doesn't tend to be available to the rest of the codex. But that wargear is often the equivalent to other armies special weapons, and limited only by squad size. Compare Fire Dragons to Trueborn. Trueborn get (some) flexibility, but lack numbers of special weapons, and pay more for them.


On Battle Focus, I think it much better suits the Craftworlders than it would us. Perhaps in a Wych Cult supplement (one day?) a similar ability to Fleet then assault could be a feature of a cult Power from Pain table?

To step back from the negativity, I actually think we will still play well. There is stuff in the book that will do fine. Once I get used to writing army lists in the new paradigm and get a few games in, happy pain reaving will continue unabated.

(So, I should quit whinging about what we could've had but don't Smile)

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PostSubject: Re: I actually LIKE the new Codex!   Tue Oct 28 2014, 15:03

@Creeping Darkness wrote:

I was hoping to have the option to take a heat lance or haywire blaster instead of a blaster or shredder, ie the choice between the four, but I could see trying out the heat lance as a tenth man in an aggressive mid-board Raider squad.

A Kabalite squad with Dark Lance and Haywire Blaster is a meta breaking combination. Sorry, it would just be too powerfull with a HWB cost similar to Scourges.
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PostSubject: Re: I actually LIKE the new Codex!   Tue Oct 28 2014, 15:08

Besides, anyone else noticed they've cut the combinations back to weapons that are actually available in particular kits? No other reason I can see for giving solarite venom blades or power lances...

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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: I actually LIKE the new Codex!   Tue Oct 28 2014, 15:21

@The_Burning_Eye wrote:
Besides, anyone else noticed they've cut the combinations back to weapons that are actually available in particular kits? No other reason I can see for giving solarite venom blades or power lances...

Yes. Thats another lowblow for conversions. The power weapon cleanup was unnecessary as the rule of thumb was "it is what it is modelled" (goodbye power lance Arena Champion).
Just waiting for the next Eldar codex that invalidates my Jetlocks.
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PostSubject: Re: I actually LIKE the new Codex!   Tue Oct 28 2014, 15:27

@Klaivex Charondyr wrote:

Yes. Thats another lowblow for conversions...(goodbye power lance Arena Champion).

Tell me about it - I've got a power lance arena champion that now needs an agoniser arm instead (I'm gonna be magnetising all weapon options like this from now on. Not so I can change armaments based on opponents but just so I don't have to break arms off anymore!).

I've also got the old succubus modelled with hydra gauntlets, but I think I'll keep that and buy the new one (looks better anyway). Sorely tempted to give her a different head though, there's one from the reaver kit with a ponytail and shades that I think would look awesome!

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: I actually LIKE the new Codex!   Tue Oct 28 2014, 15:28

@The_Burning_Eye wrote:
Tell me about it - I've got a power lance arena champion that now needs an agoniser arm instead

Just leave it as is. The Agoniser description even says "agonisers come in a variety of forms"

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PostSubject: Re: I actually LIKE the new Codex!   Tue Oct 28 2014, 15:36

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@The_Burning_Eye wrote:
Tell me about it - I've got a power lance arena champion that now needs an agoniser arm instead

Just leave it as is. The Agoniser description even says "agonisers come in a variety of forms"

True, though I have thought longingly about having a whip curling over the canopy of the bike to lash at something on the opposite side. Plus no-one else really does whips like DE do, seems a shame not to take advantage of them wherever possible.

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PostSubject: Re: I actually LIKE the new Codex!   Tue Oct 28 2014, 20:08

@The_Burning_Eye wrote:
Besides, anyone else noticed they've cut the combinations back to weapons that are actually available in particular kits? No other reason I can see for giving solarite venom blades or power lances...

Yep. Apparently we can't be trusted to take a piece from one kit and apply it to a model from another kit (unless it's a phantasm? But they fixed that by making sure no-one wants to).

After all, who knows what sort of nefarious activities kit bashers could get up to? Some might even forge a narrative. Heresy!

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PostSubject: Re: I actually LIKE the new Codex!   Tue Oct 28 2014, 22:57

@Creeping Darkness wrote:
@The_Burning_Eye wrote:
Besides, anyone else noticed they've cut the combinations back to weapons that are actually available in particular kits? No other reason I can see for giving solarite venom blades or power lances...

Yep. Apparently we can't be trusted to take a piece from one kit and apply it to a model from another kit (unless it's a phantasm? But they fixed that by making sure no-one wants to).

After all, who knows what sort of nefarious activities kit bashers could get up to? Some might even forge a narrative. Heresy!

This is actually the only thing that upsets me about the new codex.

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PostSubject: Re: I actually LIKE the new Codex!   Wed Oct 29 2014, 22:44

To be completely clear - I think the codex will still play fine on the tabletop. There will still be powerful Dark Eldar armies. And I expect to have fun with whatever models I take. So for me, no loss there.

But army selection became a whole lot less fun. Between kit-specific upgrades limiting options (affecting both army list building and modelling), and some of the fun units having hideous drawbacks (one of eight assault units having grenades, hellions being gimped on attacks, voidraven's cost, etc), I'm finding the process of shaping a list from the new codex much less fun than it used to be.

Unfortunately, I don't get a lot of games in, so I spend about ten times more time tooling around with lists. Hence, I took more of a hit than if I spent a lot of time playing.

That is my issue with the new codex.

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PostSubject: Re: I actually LIKE the new Codex!   Thu Oct 30 2014, 15:13

I don't know about less fun. Mandrakes being passable and Scourges being actually good is a tremendous swing in the right direction. Variety and all that. I always liked the Scourge and Mandrake models, but the rules prevented me from dropping the cash. If I had dropped the cash for them, hurrah.

The wargear, sure. There could be some more wargear options. Overall i'm satisfied with the efforts to make the unit selections less lopsided.
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