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 Allocating wounds in CC - To models in b2b first or not?

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Laughingcarp
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PostSubject: Allocating wounds in CC - To models in b2b first or not?   Sun Oct 19 2014, 21:48

The Situation:
My Dark Artisan DE formation charged into combat against a unit of 2 Zoanthropes, one of which had a wound on it from shooting.
The Talos and Cronos attacked at the same initiative before the Zoanthropes. As explained in The Assault Phase section of the BRB, p.51, I put the wounds from each MC into different wound pools since they have different strengths and special rules.
The Cronos wiffed his attacks. The Talos landed 2 wounds, one of which was instant death due to ichor injector.
My opponent then declared he'd take the instant death wound on the Zoanthrope with 1 pre-existing wound (they have 2 each), which is not in base contact with the source of the wounds, thereby negating the benefit of the instant death rule from killing the other full health model.

The Question: Can he do that?
I took a picture to show that the Zoanthrope with the pre-existing wound is clearly NOT in base contact with the Talos (yellow).

He argues that the section on p.52, "A Wound must be allocated to an enemy model in base contact with a model attacking at that Initiative step." takes precedence, and that since both the Talos and Cronos were at the same initiative he is justified in putting the wounds on a model NOT in base contact with the model that dealt the wounds.

But in doing so he ignores my argument, which is from two paragraphs sooner - "Wounds are allocated and resolved starting with the closest model, just like in the Shooting phase."
Since the Talos dealt the wounds, the Zoanthrope in base contact with it is obviously closest and must take the wounds first.

Basically he is saying that base contact doesn't matter and that the wounds DON'T come from the specific model that dealt them.
And I'm saying that the rules say the wounds DO come from their specific sources, just like the assault rules say it is similar to wound allocation in the shooting phase.

Who is correct?

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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Allocating wounds in CC - To models in b2b first or not?   Sun Oct 19 2014, 22:07

I would say he is right.
He does not ignore "Wounds are allocated and resolved starting with the closest model, just like in the Shooting phase." as this is on a unit base. You would been right if both Cronos and Talos would have been different units. But as the source of the attack is the unit he starts by removing the closes model to the unit.

HOWEVER:
You could argue that the ID wound from the Talos is a different wound pool than the single wound as the single wound does not have the ID rule tied to it.

Except from this, your partner is right.
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Laughingcarp
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PostSubject: Re: Allocating wounds in CC - To models in b2b first or not?   Sun Oct 19 2014, 22:15

The ID wound from the Talos IS a different wound pool... as are ALL of the attacks by the Talos (different from the Cronos, that is) since they're at a different Strength.
And yes ID wounds fall into a different wound pool from non-ID wounds as well.

Since both those wound pools are from the Talos specifically, they have to start with the closest models.

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PostSubject: Re: Allocating wounds in CC - To models in b2b first or not?   Mon Oct 20 2014, 02:50

They would be separate wound pools and you would have the right to choose which he resolved first.
That said, your opponent is correct that he can allocate to another model basing the unit.

The Talos is not independent in this example, it is part of a unit, as part of a unit it is no different than having two Thunderwolves with different gear loadouts attacking at the same init step. It doesn't matter if your powersword one caused a wound, I can allocate to anyone being based by models swinging at that init step.

From what info I see here, your opponent played it correctly.

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PostSubject: Re: Allocating wounds in CC - To models in b2b first or not?   Mon Oct 20 2014, 03:04

Ok thanks for the rules clarification.

It still doesn't make any sense in my head, but if that's how it goes then that's how it goes.

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PostSubject: Re: Allocating wounds in CC - To models in b2b first or not?   Mon Oct 20 2014, 07:42

Quote :
The ID wound from the Talos IS a different wound pool... as are ALL of the attacks by the Talos (different from the Cronos, that is) since they're at a different Strength.

Thats not what I meant.

Quote :
The Talos landed 2 wounds, one of which was instant death due to ichor injector.

Here. Thats 2 wound groups from the Talos. His standard attack (S7) doesn't have the ID special rule. But the one where you activated ID with the Ichor Injector.
So thats 1 wound causing 1 wound and 1 wound causing instant death (different special rules). So you are at 2 wound pools each containing 1 dice.
He may allocate the wounds but YOU choose in which order.
The closest to the unit would be the Zoanthrope with 1 wound left, so this one has to take the first.
You tell him the order:
1 -> normal wound
2 -> ID wound

So he has to assign the 1 wound first, thus killing the Zoanthrope closest to the unit with 1 W left.
After this he has to assign the ID wound which kills the 2nd one.
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valmir
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PostSubject: Re: Allocating wounds in CC - To models in b2b first or not?   Mon Oct 20 2014, 08:37

Except I think both Zoanthropes were in b2b contact. Meaning he doesn't *have* to allocate to the 1-wound one first.
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Klaivex Charondyr
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PostSubject: Re: Allocating wounds in CC - To models in b2b first or not?   Mon Oct 20 2014, 08:41

If both are in b2b its just bad luck Very Happy
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