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 Vehicles deepstriking cannot mishap over models?

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clively
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PostSubject: Re: Vehicles deepstriking cannot mishap over models?   Thu Oct 16 2014, 00:41

I'm with Thor on his interpretation, and I'm going to add one more reason for it.

If deep striking was movement, then scattering would cause a large number of issues for non skimmer models. For example you DS, then scatter 12". The direction and distance take you *over* an enemy unit, even though the final position means you are more than 1" away. The problem is that the movement rules prevent you from moving through enemy units. If you can't go through enemy units then the rules break.

So, no, DS can't be considered movement unless you are willing to apply all of the movement rules which would completely hose the game.



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valmir
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PostSubject: Re: Vehicles deepstriking cannot mishap over models?   Thu Oct 16 2014, 00:50

Except I think people are claiming that the "movement" is not from the original position to the scattered position, but rather from the "sky" to the scattered position.
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darthken239
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PostSubject: Re: Vehicles deepstriking cannot mishap over models?   Thu Oct 16 2014, 01:16

yeah you not moving horizontaly with scatter but coming down vertically. You only put the vehicle on the table as a reference point for the game mechanic's.

I think of it like throwing a dart, you aim at the centre bull, but it misses by a few inches, the dart doesent move sideways
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shadowseercB
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PostSubject: Re: Vehicles deepstriking cannot mishap over models?   Fri Oct 17 2014, 20:08

Pg. 17 "... you may encounter rules that say that an action or event happens 'at the start of your turn'.  These are always resolved before your movement phase."

Also has a turn summary for every turn on that page.

pg. 135 Arriving from Reserve
"At the start of yoru second turn, you must roll a D6 for each unit in your army that is being held in Reserve..."

pg. 162 Deep Strike
"Roll for the arrival of all Deep Striking units as specified in the rules for Reserves (pg.135) and then deploy them as follows..."  "In the movement phase during which they arrive..." That means that is the turn in which they arrive not that they actually moved in the movement phase.

SM Drop pods don't get affected by a mishap because their rules state to reduce the distance by the minimum required.  A model is always required to be 1 inch away from an enemies except in the assault phase.

For the arguements for lore. It doesnt matter what the lore is, the rules are there for game balance purposes. Our codex states our fliers go on strafing runs in the lore but we dont actually have that special rule for the model so im not going to use it. There are many things in lore but we just dont have access to it.
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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: Vehicles deepstriking cannot mishap over models?   Mon Oct 20 2014, 11:10

Actually, the space marine drop pod rule doesn't specify you have to move them 1" away, it just says 'far enough to avoid the obstacle'.

@ShadowseercB - Your points are all very good, however the deep strike rule states that in the movement phase, units may not move any further. In order for this to be the case, the vehicle must have moved. I think the specification here that the vehicle 'counts as' having moved is to avoid people arguing that if you roll a hit on your scatter dice, it hasn't moved at all.

Adding another consideration to this discussion - what do people think about chain snares? If you consider that the skimmer can end its move over an enemy unit and would therefore mishap, how about taking chain snares and declaring you're attempting a tank shock, the enemy unit would then have to reform around you?

I'm just throwing that in there, it won't change how I'm playing the army at all as I'm still not likely to try and drop raiders down that close to enemy units.

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Tittliewinks22
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PostSubject: Re: Vehicles deepstriking cannot mishap over models?   Mon Oct 20 2014, 12:49

I use chain snares on my transport with armor of misery. But I don't think that applies to deep strike
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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: Vehicles deepstriking cannot mishap over models?   Mon Oct 20 2014, 12:58

I was reading the tank shock rules yesterday - you're allowed to tank shock when coming in from reserve (doesn't specify deep strike, but then deep strike is a form of reserve anyway) but you have to declare it 'before' you move the vehicle, so really we're back to whether you interpret deep strike as movement.

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Archon Rixec
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PostSubject: Re: Vehicles deepstriking cannot mishap over models?   Mon Oct 20 2014, 19:14

oh god, Burnig Eye...you just opened the pandora's box. tank shock from reserves...i never..really...i always skipped that part. why? my nastiness is aroused. i'm laughing maniacally right now.
Deepstriking IS entering from reserves. ho lee crap. also, read the part where it says that a model that cannot be repositioned 1" away from you is removed as a casualty (splat)...
the question is: if I tank shock you from deep striking reserves, the mishap rules take the advantage or the fact that i'm shocking you should have the upper hand? or are we just being morons and "from reserves" is just intended as "from the board edge"?
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