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Black Death
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PostSubject: Succubus loadout   Fri Oct 10 2014, 04:32

So I'm a real big WYSIWYG player and trying to decide if I should use a blast pistol on her. I see the fact that she can have a 2x chance at hurting vehicles or inst-kill one shot on a dude. Is it worth spending the points for the blast pistol or not? As for her other weapon, definitely the glaive.

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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: Succubus loadout   Fri Oct 10 2014, 04:44

Generally I always hear that 15 pts for a 6" shot is terrible. I personally think it can be situational. But I agree 100% that you should avoid putting more points on a T3 model.

I mean, glaive, helm is 120 points and the helm is really optional. Though for a few more points I could take lelith. Hmmm

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HERO
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PostSubject: Re: Succubus loadout   Fri Oct 10 2014, 05:22

I would give her the Archite Glaive and Haywires, it's it. Comes out to 100 points on the nose.

If I have the extra points, my buy order will be Blast Pistol. Some people frown on the Blast Pistol, but for the same reasons you've provided, at the end of the day it's still a BS6 S8 AP2 shot.

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PostSubject: Re: Succubus loadout   Fri Oct 10 2014, 06:04

Oh yeah, I don't think it's terrible myself, I really oily threw the helm on her for a bit of TAC anti psyker (and I mean a wee bit)

As is I was pretty bummed my archon can't murder faces like before, but I'm broadening my mind and getting excited by the succubus... wait that came out wrong lol

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PostSubject: Re: Succubus loadout   Fri Oct 10 2014, 07:01

Haha, that's funny. I was actually thinking the armor of Misery. 4+ with 6++ but still having 4++ in CC. The helm is cool but the fact they didn't give adamentum will as an army wide rule stills kinda annoys me from a fluff stand point. Now with the armor, glaive and blast pistol thrown in with a good unit she should survive into cc, I'm thinking. Dug thru my vast amount of bitz and found a blast pistol arm, I really like the pose but not the whip unless I was gonna take an agonizer and glaive but see that as redundant. Thanks for the responses.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Succubus loadout   Fri Oct 10 2014, 07:27

Personally I go Glaive, Haywire, Armour of Misery, WWP. Pretty expensive but able to deliver a unit where it needs to be and then split off and attack something else the following turn.

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PostSubject: Re: Succubus loadout   Fri Oct 10 2014, 07:36

I'm going to try the Parasite's Kiss on her. It is too cheap not to give it a try
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PostSubject: Re: Succubus loadout   Fri Oct 10 2014, 08:51

Well, blast pistol is usefull for instakilling one miniature before charging, but I love the glaive. If pistols could being shot in mele...
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PostSubject: Re: Succubus loadout   Fri Oct 10 2014, 12:20

I'd go glaive, armour of misery for 110. -maybe- WWP depending on what she's running with (Incubi I'm more likely to put in a transport, Grotesques I'm more likely to Portal.

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PostSubject: Re: Succubus loadout   Fri Oct 10 2014, 12:31

Tried it last night, I took the glaive, armour of misery and WWP. Don't think I'd want to give her anything else as it gets really expensive - she took down 4 marines in combat without noticing (FC for +1S), the grots she was running with were most upset there was nothing left to kill.

Next time might try her without the WWP, 30-36" (with aethersails) move on arrival turn + 6" move, 6" deploy and charge should be enough against most things. Even with hammer and anvil you'll be able to reach most of the board by the time you can charge. WWP is useful though for allowing you to get those charges off against stuff like guard without having to charge through an aegis line.

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PostSubject: Re: Succubus loadout   Fri Oct 10 2014, 14:46

Glaive and Haywires I think is all you really want to spend on her. I think it's fair to say if you're using her efficiently, she's in combat by turn 2 and 3 and probably dead by bottom of turn 3. So her being around long enough to gain furious charge? meh, she'll be in combat well before than and either tarpitting or dead. I think you go glaive simply because combat drugs will benefit her with the glaive more than it will an Agoniser and a power weapon is kinda wasted, spend the 5 additional points on the glaive, maybe you get lucky with an Agonizer, get +1STR from combat drugs, survive to turn 4 where you can charge and you're re-rolling your to-wounds, but that's a super specific situation and hardly reliable.

I can't see her using a blast pistol more than once in a game. Maybe if blast pistols were boosted to have melta you could pull some shenanigans dropping her behind a vehicle and popping it. But as someone who plays space marines, you don't take a blast pistol for the same reason you never spend the points on a Plasma pistol, it's just not worth the points.
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PostSubject: Re: Succubus loadout   Fri Oct 10 2014, 14:59

@KiriONE wrote:
I think it's fair to say if you're using her efficiently, she's in combat by turn 2 and 3 and probably dead by bottom of turn 3.

Couldn't disagree more. it's never efficient to sacrifice your hq unit unless it's going to win you the game. Keeping the Succubus safe until later turns means she's less likely to die, and more likely to kill her opponents, making her more efficient for the points you've spent on her.

She's also not a tarpit, if I'm spending that many points on a single model I expect a return in deaths, not just to hold a unit up.

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PostSubject: Re: Succubus loadout   Fri Oct 10 2014, 15:32

@The_Burning_Eye wrote:
@KiriONE wrote:
I think it's fair to say if you're using her efficiently, she's in combat by turn 2 and 3 and probably dead by bottom of turn 3.

Couldn't disagree more. it's never efficient to sacrifice your hq unit unless it's going to win you the game. Keeping the Succubus safe until later turns means she's less likely to die, and more likely to kill her opponents, making her more efficient for the points you've spent on her.

She's also not a tarpit, if I'm spending that many points on a single model I expect a return in deaths, not just to hold a unit up.

Although I haven't used Succubus (GW hasn't sent the pre-ordered model yet), I totally agree with this opinion. And I don't think she would die so easily when marching with her bodyguards=grots.

Back on the topic, I'm also considering the glaive and armor of misery (+WWP depending on my army list).

P.S. I may alternate her with Lelith for a couple of fun games Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Succubus loadout   Fri Oct 10 2014, 16:41

glaive and armour of misery seems to be the best cost effective load up (trialing on sunday)

Im more inclined to go with a raider with EA and NS just for the turn 2 assault. (i tend to roll poorly for reserves)
I guess it'll come down to personal preference on who her bodyguard will be, Grots or Sslyth
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PostSubject: Re: Succubus loadout   Fri Oct 10 2014, 17:24

With the caveat that I haven't been able to have a proper game, I'm relatively eager to (eventually) try her out (Archon and Haemy will likely be my more go-to HQ's, but that's just me).

I think the Armor of Misery is a big boon for her... you can soak overwatch, making even wyches a little more viable, she has decent weapon options, and is still a budget HQ that is a decent combat character. A pretty good combat character given the points.

Personally I'll pass on the pistol. I can find better uses for the points. I'd rather chuck a grenade - either Plasma or Haywire, depending on the target (preferably plasma, though).

With the armor, though, the neg Ld makes a fear check a legitimate thing (well, half the time), but the points alone are worth the armor upgrade for her... so the rest is just cake. And it piles onto the Ld at the end of combat, which you're pretty likely to run down, thanks to insane Init values.

Anyway. I'll be trying out the Glaive to start, because when I bitz'd together a Succubus, I gave her a glaive-looking weapon. I may decide later that the Agoniser is worth the extra few points, as it usually means still wounding on a 4+, but with the extra attack.
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PostSubject: Re: Succubus loadout   Fri Oct 10 2014, 17:46

@ The_Burning_Eye

If this was the last edition of the codex I would totally agree with you, when previously a Succubus (full disclosure I was a big Archon guy in 6th edition and only used a Succ a handful of times) had a much significant risk, getting where she needed to be.

But I'm sort of changing that thinking with the new WWP and transports (deep striking and all) you're going to be able to get her into a better position a lot faster, so that's where I say by turn 2/3 combat is a lot more likely. Granted you'd still need a reserve roll though.
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