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 Raiders and Venoms as weapon platforms

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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Raiders and Venoms as weapon platforms   Wed Oct 08 2014, 19:01

Ok.

Not sure if everyone has noticed, but Raiders are Venoms, as well as being options for Dedicated Transports, are labelled as Fast Attack units. The icon is on their data-sheet, etc.

So, at 55pts for a Raider with a Disintegrator (60pts for a Dark lance) what are peoples feelings on just buying them as Fast Attack units as a weapons platform?
The same with Venoms.

I'm looking at the Realspace Raiders, and the six available Fast slots, and can;t help but think that a well rounded army with six separate weapon platforms isn't a terrible idea (and oh lord, thw new age of Venom spam, six troops units in Venoms, plus six Venoms as Fast units.....).
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Deamon
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PostSubject: Re: Raiders and Venoms as weapon platforms   Wed Oct 08 2014, 19:20

+ 3 as elite DT and +2 as archon ride.
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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: Raiders and Venoms as weapon platforms   Wed Oct 08 2014, 19:22

Indeed.

A thought passed my mind. Can you imagine the look on say a Nid, Ork or Guard players face when SIX Fast choices worth of Venoms Deep Strike in front of his line?!
(Making sure there's a Comm Relay somewhere to help this happen!)
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Matador09
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PostSubject: Re: Raiders and Venoms as weapon platforms   Wed Oct 08 2014, 19:42

Most of the time, you can just bring the venoms on from reserve. They still have a huge threat range at 48"
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: Raiders and Venoms as weapon platforms   Wed Oct 08 2014, 21:16

Svenomso just crunched it out. 17 venoms fit into an 1850 list with room to spare.

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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: Raiders and Venoms as weapon platforms   Wed Oct 08 2014, 21:19

Never mind. Double force org with bare bones archon, 22 venoms. 1840 what with troop tax and all.

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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: Raiders and Venoms as weapon platforms   Wed Oct 08 2014, 21:29

Indeed, but what are the general thoughts?
As cheap point fillers maybe seen as the slots are free?
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Martinman
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PostSubject: Re: Raiders and Venoms as weapon platforms   Thu Oct 09 2014, 03:20

Venom spam is cool until you have to fight a Necron Mech army *shudders*
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ligolski
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PostSubject: Re: Raiders and Venoms as weapon platforms   Thu Oct 09 2014, 04:37

I would take Venoms as FA where I just don't have points to fill them...can't see myself bringing a 5 man squad of any troops besides maybe wracks at some point...until then its a cheap way to field a gun boat. I wouldn't bother with raiders though unless I was allying in Eldar.

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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: Raiders and Venoms as weapon platforms   Thu Oct 09 2014, 05:15

Re crammed the numbers. 3 cad, min troops and hq with venoms. 23 venoms

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PostSubject: Re: Raiders and Venoms as weapon platforms   Thu Oct 09 2014, 13:11

ligolski wrote:
I would take Venoms as FA where I just don't have points to fill them...can't see myself bringing a 5 man squad of any troops besides maybe wracks at some point...until then its a cheap way to field a gun boat. I wouldn't bother with raiders though unless I was allying in Eldar.


Wracks aren't troops.
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PostSubject: Re: Raiders and Venoms as weapon platforms   Thu Oct 09 2014, 13:45

I would consider it with Venoms, in the same way that Eldar use Vypers. I can't see myself doing it for a Raider, though - those really rely on the passengers to be 'worth it'.

That's not saying they aren't. Even with the points jump, the new Splinter Racks (and built-in deep strike) make my raider fly-by's even more attractive.

A 50% increase in points for a 100% increase in poison output. Of course, you have to be much closer to utilize it, but it's not the sort of unit you send against a full mob of boyz and expect them *not* to be able to jump on and wreck it the next turn.

Plus, I think people haven't really stopped to appreciate what the humble Kabalite can dish out late-game. On turn 4 (I believe), you're charging in with S4 attacks (a big enough group can shift leftover units holding objectives fairly easily), and then you conveniently become Fearless on turn 5 to hold said objectives yourself. With ObSec, you only need the one.

But I digress. On its own, the Venom has enough Dakka to be worth bringing (in fact, I always wished you could plink it into FA a la Vypers). Raiders, though... the single gun does not have the draw in my eyes, even if it is a pretty powerful weapon.
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PostSubject: Re: Raiders and Venoms as weapon platforms   Thu Oct 09 2014, 17:43

Squidmaster wrote:
Ok.
Not sure if everyone has noticed, but Raiders are Venoms, as well as being options for Dedicated Transports, are labelled as Fast Attack units. The icon is on their data-sheet, etc.
I hadn't noticed. This could be very useful. I'm with everyone else though - great for Venom gunboats, not really worthwhile for Raiders. And if I have the space, I will continue to take them as dedicated transports for my troops, because then they are Fast Skimmers with Objective Secured Very Happy

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HERO
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PostSubject: Re: Raiders and Venoms as weapon platforms   Thu Oct 09 2014, 18:02

Venoms are a poor choice for me right in in the current metagame. Too much mech.

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