HomeDark Eldar WikiDark Eldar ResourcesNull CityFAQUsergroupsRegisterLog in
Share | 
 

 Whats the Anti-Air?

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : 1, 2  Next
AuthorMessage
orestes85
Hellion
avatar

Posts : 86
Join date : 2012-04-09
Location : Toronto Area

PostSubject: Whats the Anti-Air?   Sun Oct 05 2014, 22:17

Am I missing something here? Or did we get a new Codex and have no new options to deal with enemy flyers?

150 for a Razorwing with two Dark Lance shots.
160 for a Voidraven with two Void Lance shots.

Either way I think the dog fight will be: take two shots and flying right passed their flyer. Then wait to fly off board so we can try again turn 5...
Back to top Go down
Creeping Darkness
Wych
avatar

Posts : 523
Join date : 2012-11-21

PostSubject: Re: Whats the Anti-Air?   Sun Oct 05 2014, 22:24

Our anti-air capability can be summed up as whingeing incessantly until our opponents stop bringing their flyers.
Back to top Go down
http://thecreepingdarkness.blogspot.com
Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
avatar

Posts : 6832
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : London

PostSubject: Re: Whats the Anti-Air?   Mon Oct 06 2014, 05:30

Our AA is basically Codex Eldar.

_________________

You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. In what world could you possibly beat me?
Back to top Go down
Plague
Kabalite Warrior
avatar

Posts : 115
Join date : 2011-06-24
Location : U.S.A.

PostSubject: Re: Whats the Anti-Air?   Mon Oct 06 2014, 06:17

There's always the aegis defense line.

_________________
“Now they will know why they are afraid of the dark. Now they learn why they fear the night.”
Back to top Go down
notts
Kabalite Warrior


Posts : 165
Join date : 2011-10-19

PostSubject: Re: Whats the Anti-Air?   Mon Oct 06 2014, 08:17

Some guy on another forum I'm on insists Razorwings are good flyers.

lmao.
Back to top Go down
lessthanjeff
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 338
Join date : 2014-03-09
Location : Orlando, FL

PostSubject: Re: Whats the Anti-Air?   Mon Oct 06 2014, 08:50

I'm of the opinion Razorwings are awesome, myself.

Do I expect it to shoot and kill the enemy flyer? No. Do I expect its shots to make the enemy have to jink and waste one of its few turns on the board. Yes. Also, it's the kind of unit that I think gets better and better in multiples.

The reason I really like the razorwing though is that its missile loadout lets it wipe an infantry unit off the board in addition to its threat against armor values. The new price point is fantastic to me and makes it a very efficient and versatile model imo.
Back to top Go down
notts
Kabalite Warrior


Posts : 165
Join date : 2011-10-19

PostSubject: Re: Whats the Anti-Air?   Mon Oct 06 2014, 08:51

Isnt it only 5 pts cheaper?

They should twin linked the Dark Lances.
Back to top Go down
lessthanjeff
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 338
Join date : 2014-03-09
Location : Orlando, FL

PostSubject: Re: Whats the Anti-Air?   Mon Oct 06 2014, 08:59

Yeah, only 5 points if you take the lances. It's not a lot cheaper than it was but it has become far more efficient compared to its main competition, the ravager.

Ravager went up in cost and lost some of its output. Comparatively, I'd call the Razorwing tougher, more versatile, and more lethal for 15 points more.

Considered on its own, I think it easily makes its points back in terms of how much it will kill and what a pain in the ass it will be for enemies.
Back to top Go down
notts
Kabalite Warrior


Posts : 165
Join date : 2011-10-19

PostSubject: Re: Whats the Anti-Air?   Mon Oct 06 2014, 09:01

fine, but I dont think its fair to say "the new price point is fantastic".
5 pts is entirely irrelevant.

It cant kill flyers, and it's our only AA- therefore its a fail in my book.
Back to top Go down
lessthanjeff
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 338
Join date : 2014-03-09
Location : Orlando, FL

PostSubject: Re: Whats the Anti-Air?   Mon Oct 06 2014, 09:05

That's if you take lances though. It got a 15 point drop if you're willing to keeping it dedicated anti infantry (which is easy to do with at least 1 if you're taking multiple). Stack it up against other 130 point units and see how many others can kill as much while still being as hard to bring down as it is.

Killing the flyer is often less important to me than rendering it useless. A single razorwing has a very high chance of forcing snap shots from the opponent, and if you really need one dead then having a couple razorwings will bring it down.
Back to top Go down
notts
Kabalite Warrior


Posts : 165
Join date : 2011-10-19

PostSubject: Re: Whats the Anti-Air?   Mon Oct 06 2014, 09:08

The problem with your logical reasoning (and I really do see the logic behind it) is this:
Does the book lack things that can kill infantry?

Does the book lack AA?

As an AI unit It looks decent. But entirely, entirely superfluous.
Back to top Go down
lessthanjeff
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 338
Join date : 2014-03-09
Location : Orlando, FL

PostSubject: Re: Whats the Anti-Air?   Mon Oct 06 2014, 09:14

Are you saying anti air or anti armor? Interestingly enough with the new codex, I'm finding a lot of my ground units are being shifted to armor duties like scourges so I was actually needing the infantry killing power from the jetfighter.

Before, I had nothing for flyers because I couldn't really justify the razorwing over the ravagers and I just had to try to minimize the damage from night scythes especially. Now I think I can field 2 or 3 razorwings and prevent the death ray from running the table, but you're right that I don't think I'll be reliably killing them. Just dramatically reducing their effect on the table.
Back to top Go down
Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
avatar

Posts : 6832
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : London

PostSubject: Re: Whats the Anti-Air?   Mon Oct 06 2014, 10:33

@lessthanjeff wrote:
Are you saying anti air or anti armor?  Interestingly enough with the new codex, I'm finding a lot of my ground units are being shifted to armor duties like scourges so I was actually needing the infantry killing power from the jetfighter.

Before, I had nothing for flyers because I couldn't really justify the razorwing over the ravagers and I just had to try to minimize the damage from night scythes especially.  Now I think I can field 2 or 3 razorwings and prevent the death ray from running the table, but you're right that I don't think I'll be reliably killing them.  Just dramatically reducing their effect on the table.

Making Night Scythes Jink does little to decrease their effectiveness though, as they still on average cause 4 hits even when jinking!

_________________

You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. In what world could you possibly beat me?
Back to top Go down
Cavash
Lord of the Chat
avatar

Posts : 3149
Join date : 2012-04-14
Location : Stuck in an air vent spying on plotters

PostSubject: Re: Whats the Anti-Air?   Mon Oct 06 2014, 10:37

How about we wait for the next codex? Laughing

_________________

Back to top Go down
lessthanjeff
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 338
Join date : 2014-03-09
Location : Orlando, FL

PostSubject: Re: Whats the Anti-Air?   Mon Oct 06 2014, 11:05

It's just the doom ray thing I've been trying to avoid though. I still need to get a hold of the necron codex to look at it because I feel like something is being played wrong, but they've been hitting me with strength 10 ap 1 attacks that I can't jink against and instant kill my grotesque even when they're locked in close combat. That it doesn't have to roll to hit or anything and can usually cover multiple units with automatic pens and a 50% chance of explodes results has been killing me. I just want to make those guys snapshoot, so I don't really care if I actually kill the models.
Back to top Go down
Expletive Deleted
Wych
avatar

Posts : 581
Join date : 2013-07-31

PostSubject: Re: Whats the Anti-Air?   Mon Oct 06 2014, 23:38

I'm a fan of the razorwing this codex. Not because it got much better, but because it's about as good as a ravager now. And it can hit flyers. Adhemar is right though if you want more competent AA, like everything else run Eldar.

You know where they really dropped the ball? Would it have been so hard to make some AT missiles for our flyers? The Blood Angels have some pretty competent Bloodstrike missiles on their Storm Raven.

No, instead you can exchange them for missiles that do the exact same thing as monoscythe missiles or pay 5 points for missiles that still wound everything on a 2 but now allow orcs, tyranids, and guardsmen to make armor saves. I honestly don't understand why they'd basically give us three versions of the same weapon on the same unit. Sigh

_________________
"Excess, yeah that's what we do best."
Back to top Go down
DestroyApathy
Slave


Posts : 8
Join date : 2013-08-02

PostSubject: Re: Whats the Anti-Air?   Tue Oct 07 2014, 12:19

I know that not everybody plays them, but since we in our gaming group have really taken well to the Maestrom Missions, we have also taken really well to the mysterious objectives. It makes objectives even more important and has even more tactical significance.

The Skyfire Nexus is likely to come up quite often, and our advantage is that our Ravagers are so quick, we can quite easily get them to where they want to be.

We have all found that in our local gaming community, this minor change has staged a major re-balancing with regards to fliers. My old tactic of cross my fingers and hope that they don't come in, and if they do, that they don't hit me (not fantastic tactics). This way has worked much better.

p.s. The plus 1 cover save is super fantastic, especially if one is discovered on the way up the board, and you can use it as a route to get your Raiders up. Especially with the new Night Shields, a 2+ jink within that 6" diameter (more if you consider you only need a bit of the Raider within 3") is a big helping hand.
Back to top Go down
The_Burning_Eye
Trueborn
avatar

Posts : 2501
Join date : 2012-01-16
Location : Rutland - UK

PostSubject: Re: Whats the Anti-Air?   Tue Oct 07 2014, 12:30

@DestroyApathy wrote:

p.s. The plus 1 cover save is super fantastic, especially if one is discovered on the way up the board, and you can use it as a route to get your Raiders up. Especially with the new Night Shields, a 2+ jink within that 6" diameter (more if you consider you only need a bit of the Raider within 3") is a big helping hand.

I love this - never saw it as much use until now! Looking forward to annoying people with that one, I can just imagine the conversation now.

"Right, time to shoot that raider off the objective."
"Good luck, I have a 2+ jink save."
" affraid "

ok, won't work against some things, but it'll be fun seeing their faces the first time!

_________________
Tan? You're joking, I'm a gamer, you're lucky I'm wearing deodorant!

My Blog - The Burning Eye Blog (check it out - comments always welcome)

My Project Log - Visions of the Burning Eye

My Gaming Log - Chronicles of the Burning Eye

My Club - MAD Wargaming

My Fluff - Kabal of the Burning Eye, Cult of the Shadowed Blade and Coven of Distorted Perfection
Back to top Go down
http://theburningeye.blogspot.com
Archon Rievect
Kabalite Warrior
avatar

Posts : 132
Join date : 2014-08-02
Location : The WWP behind you!

PostSubject: Re: Whats the Anti-Air?   Tue Oct 07 2014, 21:45

I just yell obscenities..... Razz
Back to top Go down
lessthanjeff
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 338
Join date : 2014-03-09
Location : Orlando, FL

PostSubject: Re: Whats the Anti-Air?   Tue Oct 07 2014, 21:49

Getting a 2+ that way is nice, but it also means you're not accomplishing anything significant due to snapshots. It would probably feel the same as when my maulerfiends get immobilized and people just walk around barely 1 inch away to taunt him.
Back to top Go down
Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
avatar

Posts : 6832
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : London

PostSubject: Re: Whats the Anti-Air?   Thu Oct 09 2014, 06:24

Back on topic...I've been doing a lot of list building the last couple of days and every time I create a list I come back to the same question - How do I deal with enemy flyers? The sad answer to that question is that I cannot do it whilst staying within the DE Codex. There is literally nothing in our codex that will reliably deal with flyers. I desperately want a pure DE force but I know I will come up against Stormravens/Talons, Cron Air, Helldrakes etc and if I have nothing to deal with those then they will decimate my army.

_________________

You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. In what world could you possibly beat me?
Back to top Go down
flakmonkey
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 333
Join date : 2013-03-05

PostSubject: Re: Whats the Anti-Air?   Thu Oct 09 2014, 06:35

I was thinking of picking up another razorwing, possibly a voidraven (still undecided on that one)
But what in the craftworld 'dex is AA? And what makes it so superior and competitive compared to our own?
P.s I've only really used jetbikes and a wraithknight from the eldar 'dex.

_________________
"Whereas the duty of the Imperial Commander is either to seize or defend territory, the Dark Eldar make war only to steal. If, as a by-product of this, the are able to indulge their vile passion for murder, torture and other decadent acts, then they will joyfully do so, but this is not their primary goal"
Back to top Go down
Mandor
Kabalite Warrior
avatar

Posts : 176
Join date : 2011-12-14
Location : The Netherlands

PostSubject: Re: Whats the Anti-Air?   Thu Oct 09 2014, 06:44

@flakmonkey wrote:
I was thinking of picking up another razorwing, possibly a voidraven (still undecided on that one)
But what in the craftworld 'dex is AA? And what makes it so superior and competitive compared to our own?
P.s I've only really used jetbikes and a wraithknight from the eldar 'dex.

Both our own flyers are severely outperformed by the enemy flyers you'll be facing. Or generally outperformed by anything at all.

CWE bring Wave Serpents. They generally work against anything currently in-game.
Back to top Go down
flakmonkey
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 333
Join date : 2013-03-05

PostSubject: Re: Whats the Anti-Air?   Thu Oct 09 2014, 06:55

So it's not that craftworld fliers are better, it's just that they bring wave serpents?
I'm vaguely disappointed that's the answer, tbh.
I've read so much amount about the WS lately. It's better than our transports, it's better than our AT, and now it's better than our aircraft.
What will everything be compared to when the nerf hammer falls on it?

So in othe words, if I want a flier, I might as well buy a razorwing. The crimson hunter ? isn't better.

_________________
"Whereas the duty of the Imperial Commander is either to seize or defend territory, the Dark Eldar make war only to steal. If, as a by-product of this, the are able to indulge their vile passion for murder, torture and other decadent acts, then they will joyfully do so, but this is not their primary goal"
Back to top Go down
lessthanjeff
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 338
Join date : 2014-03-09
Location : Orlando, FL

PostSubject: Re: Whats the Anti-Air?   Thu Oct 09 2014, 06:57

The Crimson Hunter is fantastic at shooting down enemy flyers.  It gets 4 strength 8 ap 2 shoots at BS5 (if you take the exarch upgrade) and has tankhunter for flying vehicles.  I've been bringing one to let my DE flyers focus on ground targets and it's basically the only reason I allied Eldar.
Back to top Go down
 
Whats the Anti-Air?
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 2Go to page : 1, 2  Next

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
THE DARK CITY :: 

GENERAL DARK ELDAR DISCUSSION

 :: Dark Eldar Discussion
-
Jump to: