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 Hellions: am I missing something?

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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Hellions: am I missing something?   Sun Oct 05 2014, 11:47

Is there ever a point to take hellions now? When reavers are just better in every way? For only a three point increase.

Reaver:
-3 S3 attacks on the charge
-1 S4 rending auto hit on the charge
-2 splinter shots before charging
-12" movement
-Jink for 3+ cover save
-48" redeploy
-skilled rider
-hit and run
-T4
-5+ armour
-combat drugs
-access to AT weapons
-access to cluster caltrops

Hellions:
-2 S4 attacks on the charge (hellglaive no longer gives +1 attack and is two handed)
-1 S3 auto hit on the charge if they don't use their jump pack in the movement phase
-2 splinter shots before charging
-fleet
-12" movement
-deep strike
-hit and run
-T3
-5+ armour
-combat drugs
-access to phantasm grenade launchers and stunclaws
-3 points cheaper

Seems like two almost identical units, just one is miles and above better in every way. Shocked

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Obscurio
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PostSubject: Re: Hellions: am I missing something?   Sun Oct 05 2014, 12:00

I can't see a place for them now sadly, other than filing the slot in the Kalabite raiding party formation
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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Hellions: am I missing something?   Sun Oct 05 2014, 12:18

I have 20 so they WILL go on the table... but that's only because I have them...

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Zenotaph
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PostSubject: Re: Hellions: am I missing something?   Sun Oct 05 2014, 12:51

@Mushkilla wrote:
Reaver:
-2 splinter shots before charging
Did I miss something here? Shocked

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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Hellions: am I missing something?   Sun Oct 05 2014, 13:06

@Zenotaph wrote:
@Mushkilla wrote:
Reaver:
-2 splinter shots before charging
Did I miss something here? Shocked

Reavers come with splinter rifles, which are rapid fire and therefore get two shots when within 12", they are also relentless meaning they can charge after firing rapid fire weapons. So in the shooting phase before you charge you get two splinter shots per reaver.

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Zenotaph
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PostSubject: Re: Hellions: am I missing something?   Sun Oct 05 2014, 13:13

I didn't know, they are relentless. I don't own the new dex, because I injured my foot on Friday...
Thanks for the info.

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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Hellions: am I missing something?   Sun Oct 05 2014, 13:15

@Zenotaph wrote:
I didn't know, they are relentless. I don't own the new dex, because I injured my foot on Friday...
Thanks for the info.

All bike unit types are relentless, it's under the core rules.

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Zenotaph
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PostSubject: Re: Hellions: am I missing something?   Sun Oct 05 2014, 13:16

Damn. Should have known that last week. I think, I read the rules again...

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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: Hellions: am I missing something?   Sun Oct 05 2014, 13:43

Hellions look like a bloody sacrificial units. Throw and forget, or deepstrike in. 65 points - 10 poison shots. They have AP5 on Hellglaves, another stupid bonus.

And i have 15 of them...heh...

Stunclaw is complete waste...what do these ppl thought, i dont know. S4 Ap- ID in challenges...yeah sure. I cant even think of something multiwound that can be won in a challenge with 2S4 atacks.

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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: Hellions: am I missing something?   Sun Oct 05 2014, 14:51

Yep, Hellions are pretty much useless now, and I find it depressing that they got forced into the Formation instead of Reavers.....
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Hellions: am I missing something?   Sun Oct 05 2014, 14:56

Well they are the new Mandrakes. Defensively, offensively and in mobility they are worse than Reavers.
Not even potential S6 on charge cannot save them.
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Bibitybopitybacon
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PostSubject: Re: Hellions: am I missing something?   Sun Oct 05 2014, 15:19

Well... the range on their guns is 18'.....
But still, best to just convert them to beast masters...
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Hellions: am I missing something?   Sun Oct 05 2014, 15:41

@Bibitybopitybacon wrote:
Well... the range on their guns is 18'.....
But still, best to just convert them to beast masters...

This is what I did ^

I was very lucky to only buy 1 box when the 5th ed book 1st came out. As soon as I saw what Reavers did (I liked the look better and play style of bikes anyways) I was sold on them and bough 18 bikes right away.

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Hellions: am I missing something?   Sun Oct 05 2014, 16:40

@aurynn wrote:
Well they are the new Mandrakes. Defensively, offensively and in mobility they are worse than Reavers.
Not even potential S6 on charge cannot save them.
I thought Mandrakes were the new Mandrakes Laughing

But, yeah, I agree with you that Hellions pretty categorically suck now.

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Creeping Darkness
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PostSubject: Re: Hellions: am I missing something?   Sun Oct 05 2014, 23:01

Poor Hellions. Four short years of being halfway decent with a special character in tow, then back to the shelf.

I got my hopes up when I saw the price drop. Could this be enough to take them as a fast attack choice, I wondered? Then I saw they no longer received an extra attack, and discovered they have no access to assault grenades at all, and began clearing a space for them in the darkest recesses of my shelf.

So, the only thing you are missing Mushkilla is the secret reason why GW don't want to sell any more Hellion models. Maybe the mould broke or something.
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@miral
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PostSubject: Re: Hellions: am I missing something?   Sun Oct 05 2014, 23:27

I think they faq them to 2 attacks. I only bought 5 for beastmasters thankfully. Sad.
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Anggul
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PostSubject: Re: Hellions: am I missing something?   Mon Oct 06 2014, 00:02

The real kick is that they didn't even get jink back when they were the first ones in the game to have it back in third edition.

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Bleaksoul Brethren
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PostSubject: Re: Hellions: am I missing something?   Mon Oct 06 2014, 03:29

One of the drugs gives +1 toughness... So toughness 5 bikes!!! Whoo spacemarine bikes now!!
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The PayneTrayn
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PostSubject: Re: Hellions: am I missing something?   Mon Oct 06 2014, 03:40

If Hellions had access to jink...would they still be usable?
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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: Hellions: am I missing something?   Mon Oct 06 2014, 03:54

Laughing

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Hellions: am I missing something?   Mon Oct 06 2014, 12:25

@Bibitybopitybacon wrote:
Well... the range on their guns is 18'.....
But still, best to just convert them to beast masters...

If only we could find a decent use for beast packs now. They are currently vying with Hellions for the title of Most Pointless Unit.

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Anggul
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PostSubject: Re: Hellions: am I missing something?   Mon Oct 06 2014, 13:14

@The PayneTrayn wrote:
If Hellions had access to jink...would they still be usable?

Nope, they would still be inferior to Reavers who have a better jink save, but it would be a step in the right direction.

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PostSubject: Re: Hellions: am I missing something?   Mon Oct 06 2014, 16:19

One thing to consider ist, that the Hellglaive has a DS of 5, so against mass troops they are actually good, if not netter in combat. Sure, rending on your HOW attacks is really good against MEQ but against GEQ i think that Hellions could outshine reavers....

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PainReaver
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PostSubject: Re: Hellions: am I missing something?   Mon Oct 06 2014, 17:10

The only good thing Hellions are for, is the bits box.

Hellglaives for your plastic Incubi
Additional hangers on for your Raiders and Venoms.
Skyboard parts to pimp out your various rides.
Heads to give more dynamism to your Reavers.
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PainReaver
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PostSubject: Re: Hellions: am I missing something?   Mon Oct 06 2014, 17:11

@Crazy_Irish wrote:
One thing to consider ist, that the Hellglaive has a DS of 5, so against mass troops they are actually good, if not netter in combat. Sure, rending on your HOW attacks is really good against MEQ but against GEQ i think that Hellions could outshine reavers....

And for four more points, you can go get an Incubi. Who do the same thing, with FC. And cuts through Termies (sometimes).
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