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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Actual ideas, no bellyaching.    Sun Oct 05 2014, 13:39

Plague wrote:
This codex isn't all doom and gloom people, it's just not Eldar easy button. It requires skill like it always has and always will. The Space Marine mind is not made for the Dark Eldar codex and that's why so many people are like "OMG TEH SKY IS FALLING!"

Except, it's not just about power level - it's about losing flavour. Like so many of our unique items/abilities becoming generic ones:

Urien's Meld the Flesh is now just IWND
Clone Field is now a 4++ save
Night Shields are now Stealth
Electrocorrosive Whip and Mindphase Gauntlet are now just Concussive
Stun Claw is now just Instant Death in a challenge
Bladevanes are now just HoW hits
etc.

You're right though, the SM mind probably isn't made for the DE codex - because they're used to having flavour, rules and units added, not removed. Rolling Eyes
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Plague
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PostSubject: Re: Actual ideas, no bellyaching.    Sun Oct 05 2014, 14:09

The Shredder wrote:
Plague wrote:
This codex isn't all doom and gloom people, it's just not Eldar easy button. It requires skill like it always has and always will. The Space Marine mind is not made for the Dark Eldar codex and that's why so many people are like "OMG TEH SKY IS FALLING!"

Except, it's not just about power level - it's about losing flavour. Like so many of our unique items/abilities becoming generic ones:

Urien's Meld the Flesh is now just IWND
Clone Field is now a 4++ save
Night Shields are now Stealth
Electrocorrosive Whip and Mindphase Gauntlet are now just Concussive
Stun Claw is now just Instant Death in a challenge
Bladevanes are now just HoW hits
etc.

You're right though, the SM mind probably isn't made for the DE codex - because they're used to having flavour, rules and units added, not removed. Rolling Eyes


At least Urien got cheaper

Still have access to the 2+ shadowfield, and now it lasts until the end of the phase rather than fizzle out immediately.

I don't mind a 3+ cover save in the open for an extra 15 points.

Reavers lost blade vanes, sure, but getting rending HoW, Hit/Run and a points reduction was big.

Agreed, there was quite a bit of flavor lost in translation from 5th to 7th. I think that's been the case with all of the recent codicies though, GW is watering down the game unfortunately. All I'm saying is that this army didn't become Tyranids overnight like a lot of people are claiming. Do I have to change my play style a bit, sure. Will that require me to buy models, yes. Am I still going to kick some arse with Dark Elder, you betcha!

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Ubernoob1
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PostSubject: Re: Actual ideas, no bellyaching.    Sun Oct 05 2014, 15:42

Plague wrote:
Still have access to the 2+ shadowfield, and now it lasts until the end of the phase rather than fizzle out immediately.

Something else to note is that it fails at the end of a phase in which they take an unsaved wound, not just fail the shadowfield save. And if you pass feel no pain it counts the wound as having been saved.
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Creeping Darkness
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PostSubject: Re: Actual ideas, no bellyaching.    Mon Oct 06 2014, 01:39

Plague wrote:
I tried this last night with a 2x WWP Archon and 6 Medusae in raiders, their precision and deadliness was a thing of pure joy. I managed to wipe out an entire squad of Necron Immortals in cover before they could do anything with one and wiped a squad of deathmarks with the other. Granted, the template on my raider that ensued didn't feel so good but those Medusae easily earned more than their points back and created some serious havoc in my opponents backfield turn 2. Sprinkle in 3 units of heat lance scourges deep striking and all of a sudden my venoms in the backfield weren't a primary target. This allowed for me to move up with them and pepper my opponent with splinter fire and surprisingly I didn't lose a single venom, which was quite nice.

Sweet. Love it.

Correct me if I am wrong (or abuse me if it has been mentioned ad nauseum before), but doesn't the fact that Talos & Cronos can now come in squads mean that they can be joined by a character, and then webway portal into perfect position? If so, it seems a decent option to drop a pair into perfect backfield barbecue positions, be they Talos with heat lances into rear AV, or Cronos with AP3 templates and large blasts into squishies.

Or even slam a pair of Cronos next to your other webway portal people to make them less squishy?


I've been down on the book, but it's starting to feel like the playstyle could be really interesting - lots of guys appearing from nowhere, coupled with rapid redeployment to put pressure on the most vulnerable parts of the enemy lines.
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Calyptra
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PostSubject: Re: Actual ideas, no bellyaching.    Mon Oct 06 2014, 01:46

Independent characters can't join units of monstrous creatures, unfortunately.

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Creeping Darkness
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PostSubject: Re: Actual ideas, no bellyaching.    Mon Oct 06 2014, 02:35

Ah, the no-tyranid-primes-in-carnifex-units rule.

Cheers, I couldn't remember if it was a game or codex rule. Back to the drawing board.

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MyNameDidntFit
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PostSubject: Re: Actual ideas, no bellyaching.    Mon Oct 06 2014, 02:44

Yup. The only way to do that is with the Coven Supplement's Formation of 1 Haemi, 1 Chronos, 1 Talos as a unit.

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Its_Rumble
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PostSubject: Re: Actual ideas, no bellyaching.    Mon Oct 06 2014, 03:28

Yea I was bummed about the Cronos bomb but oh well thats what my grots are for in a raider. I did order 3 Talos today though Should be here by friday hopefully get to try them out this weekend. I know I am jumping the gun on them but I think 3 Talos with TL HWB is just dirty. I don't care if they are slow the threat those things generate is going to be way worth it because if they get ignored they will roll through things. I can even give them all Liqs if I wanted. TL Liq covers that S3 pretty nicely.


Something that is interesting that obviously is not intended. Beastmaster Skyboard is in the Arcane Wargear section. NOW: It is not in the Index for a point cost however NOWHERE does it say that you can not take it on a archon. It just shows it in the wargear of a beastmaster. I'm chosing to look at this as anything that can take arcane wargear can have the skyboard for free. The index with the points has modifiers with those numbers at the end, the skyboard is not listed therefore there is no modifier for it. LOL please prove me wrong.

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PostSubject: Re: Actual ideas, no bellyaching.    Mon Oct 06 2014, 04:30

Someone may have already mentioned it but I'm going to run two talos and a cronos with the spirit probe so and just walk them up the field. 3+ armor, 4+ fnp for all three from turn 1
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Its_Rumble
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PostSubject: Re: Actual ideas, no bellyaching.    Mon Oct 06 2014, 04:32

Bleaksoul Brethren wrote:
Someone may have already mentioned it but I'm going to run two talos and a cronos with the spirit probe so and just walk them up the field. 3+ armor, 4+ fnp for all three from turn 1.

Sorry my computer freaked and posted it twice

You cannot combine Talos and Cronos

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PostSubject: Re: Actual ideas, no bellyaching.    Mon Oct 06 2014, 04:35

MyNameDidntFit wrote:
Yup. The only way to do that is with the Coven Supplement's Formation of 1 Haemi, 1 Chronos, 1 Talos as a unit.

Works for me. Hooray, MC-bomb is back on the menu!
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PostSubject: Re: Actual ideas, no bellyaching.    Mon Oct 06 2014, 04:41

Its_Rumble wrote:
Bleaksoul Brethren wrote:
Someone may have already mentioned it but I'm going to run two talos and a cronos with the spirit probe so and just walk them up the field. 3+ armor, 4+ fnp for all three from turn 1.

Sorry my computer freaked and posted it twice

You cannot combine Talos and Cronos

You can take them as separate squads though.

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PostSubject: Re: Actual ideas, no bellyaching.    Mon Oct 06 2014, 05:41

Its_Rumble wrote:
Something that is interesting that obviously is not intended. Beastmaster Skyboard is in the Arcane Wargear section. NOW: It is not in the Index for a point cost however NOWHERE does it say that you can not take it on a archon. It just shows it in the wargear of a beastmaster. I'm chosing to look at this as anything that can take arcane wargear can have the skyboard for free. The index with the points has modifiers with those numbers at the end, the skyboard is not listed therefore there is no modifier for it. LOL please prove me wrong.

how does that reasoning work?? it isnt in the wargear list section as something that can be taken. it is in fact an explanation of what a piece of gear a single unit has access to.

The Armoury of the Dark City which, where the beastboard is, lists the equipment used by the dark eldar and rules for said equipment.
The Dark Eldar Wargear List, which is where you take options for characters and units, detail the points cost and availability of wargear available to you in specific sub lists including Arcane Wargear and nowhere is a beast board of any description in my copy.
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PostSubject: Re: Actual ideas, no bellyaching.    Mon Oct 06 2014, 07:49

Urghhhhhhhh I'm in agony to decide what to buy for my court. I considered Sslyth first, but after reading all these opinions, Lhamaean and Medusae suddenly look soooo attractive.

Please don't tell me to buy all though: money issue always Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Actual ideas, no bellyaching.    Mon Oct 06 2014, 08:13

helvexis wrote:
Its_Rumble wrote:
Something that is interesting that obviously is not intended. Beastmaster Skyboard is in the Arcane Wargear section. NOW: It is not in the Index for a point cost however NOWHERE does it say that you can not take it on a archon. It just shows it in the wargear of a beastmaster. I'm chosing to look at this as anything that can take arcane wargear can have the skyboard for free. The index with the points has modifiers with those numbers at the end, the skyboard is not listed therefore there is no modifier for it. LOL please prove me wrong.

how does that reasoning work?? it isnt in the wargear list section as something that can be taken. it is in fact an explanation of what a piece of gear a single unit has access to.

The Armoury of the Dark City which, where the beastboard is, lists the equipment used by the dark eldar and rules for said equipment.
The Dark Eldar Wargear List, which is where you take options for characters and units, detail the points cost and availability of wargear available to you in specific sub lists including Arcane Wargear and nowhere is a beast board of any description in my copy.


I know it is a stretch but on page 107 under arcane it is listed there. On page 69 it is not listed under arcane. The rules on archon says you can take anything from arcane. Since it doesn't have a point cost then I would assume it is free. Unless someone finds a place that says you cannot put an archon on a beastboard then I will argue the everliving crap out of it until it is errata'd Laughing

But seriously look at it. The vehicle options have superscripts concerning what can and cannot be done. I know it doesn't list it on page 69 but on 107 it does.


Disclaimer: I am trying to find the rule where it says you can't i'm not trying to be annoying about it.

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PostSubject: Re: Actual ideas, no bellyaching.    Mon Oct 06 2014, 08:22

There's also nothing stating you can 't give your Archon a Dreadnought Close Combat Weapon. Hey, it's under Melee Weapons in the 40K rulebook, and he can take Melee Weapons!

What you're missing, though, is that it states that you pick from the Melee Weapons, Arcane Wargear and/or Artefacts of Cruelty lists, which are on page 69. Skyboards are not listed on the Arcane Wargear list, but you're correct, they are Arcane Wargear. He just doesn't pick gear from the Armoury, he picks it from the lists. Which again, do not feature the Skyboard, or the Dreadnought CCW for that matter.

It's just like how Hydra Gauntlets are a Melee Weapon, they're even listed under Melee Weapons in the Armoury. However, for the purpose of Wargear Lists, they come under Wych Cult Weapons, so no, your Archon can't have Hydra Gauntlets either

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PostSubject: Re: Actual ideas, no bellyaching.    Mon Oct 06 2014, 08:32

lelith wrote:
Urghhhhhhhh I'm in agony to decide what to buy for my court. I considered Sslyth first, but after reading all these opinions, Lhamaean and Medusae suddenly look soooo attractive.

Please don't tell me to buy all though: money issue always Wink

I would go with the Medusae hands down if you want your archon to be shooty. In my personal opinion if you want your archon to be CC oriented I would prefer grots to the rest of them. The question lies with force org yada yada yada, Sslyth are nice and so are lhaemeans but I think the grots would do better. Talk about keeping your archon safe.


And yes I understand that's what I was looking for. Oh well I think ill try convincing people at the LGS anyways for S and giggles. See if I can get away with it against my friends.

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PostSubject: Re: Actual ideas, no bellyaching.    Mon Oct 06 2014, 08:40

It's just a pity he doesn't have access to a Ranged Weapons list, I'd love to see an Archon with a Dreadnought CCW in one hand, and a Vulcan Mega-Bolter in the other! affraid

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PostSubject: Re: Actual ideas, no bellyaching.    Mon Oct 06 2014, 10:08

MyNameDidntFit wrote:
Yup. The only way to do that is with the Coven Supplement's Formation of 1 Haemi, 1 Chronos, 1 Talos as a unit.

And I fully intend on using and abusing this formation to give me 3+ WWPs, muhahahaha!

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PostSubject: Re: Actual ideas, no bellyaching.    Mon Oct 06 2014, 10:10

lelith wrote:
Urghhhhhhhh I'm in agony to decide what to buy for my court. I considered Sslyth first, but after reading all these opinions, Lhamaean and Medusae suddenly look soooo attractive.

Please don't tell me to buy all though: money issue always Wink

Sslyth bombs certainly have their place in raiders with splinter racks. The fact that they are T5, 2 Wounds with Shard Carbines is very nice. I personally like the S4 AP3 Templates because there is so much that they can kill in the game. Everyone is worried about 2+ armor saves but that's what dissies are for.

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PostSubject: Re: Actual ideas, no bellyaching.    Mon Oct 06 2014, 19:13

I posted before but I think a nice cheap murdering unit is 10 Lhamaeans--- I am going to try to take out my friends wraith knight with them ... if I can get them in CC..... I will probably have to screen with basic unit of warriors, shoot, bum rush the WK(or knight, canifex,etc) they take the overwatch if it happens and then send in the little assassins..... ooooh the look on the face if I can pull it off.... priceless! Suspect Twisted EvilShocked Laughing cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Actual ideas, no bellyaching.    Mon Oct 06 2014, 21:19

Btw reaper - Dark heaven snake man is a marvelous plastic mini for 2.22 per and makes a perfect slyth.

http://www.frpgames.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=93408#.VDLUHKNOnFq

Just add a shard carbine arm... oh hello box of scourges I'm going to equip with special weapons!

Medusae are a little less obvious. I'm thinking these guys

http://privateerpress.com/hordes/gallery/legion-of-everblight/solos/spell-martyr

They certainly look like they are infested with SOMETHING and id believe it shot a template. Maybe cephalyx overlords with green stuff brains could work as well.


Lhameans I think are best done with dark elf sisters of slaughter (though not much cheaper), maybe just wyches

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PostSubject: Re: Actual ideas, no bellyaching.    Mon Oct 06 2014, 22:30

Pretty good ideas guys keep em coming! The Dusa bomb definitely looks like it is a lot of fun. One question though what do we know about the coven supp so far?

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